Non-SMNC Screenshots/Videos

Skiing has reason behind it and makes sense and has some front of believably and is actually fun and is the intuitive way to travel in it's respective games.

None of which can bunnyhopping claim.

Has reason behind it?

- It's a function in the game, it wasn't put there without reason

Makes sense?

- http://www.funender.com/quake/articles/ ... heory.html check

Is fun?

- Maybe not for 'you', ie. has no place in any sort of argument

Is believable?

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAC1qLiJSA8 check

Is the intuitive way to travel?

- Yes, if you played the game you'd know that (this balances your non-argument out, I believe in fair play)

If you're not willing to read that nerd essay (I'm not and I'm actually interested in the subject matter), let me break it down for you:
The Quake engine caps one directional, ground movement to 320 units per seconds. If you add a second direction however, you can get to about 420 ups, which can easily be observed by either walking in a circle or by running alongside a wall and holding two movement keys. You can add a third 'direction' by moving cursor along the horizontal axis, thereby turning your player model. By jumping, you remove the friction from the ground, which lets you accelerate far past 420 ups (I believe there's no limit to air acceleration in theory). When you jump the moment you hit the ground, you will keep your momentum, which also can easily be observed by not jumping after a successful strafe jump, which will make you lose all your momentum almost instantly.

Edit: As for the fun part, although fun is subjective and has no place in a logical argument, I'm willing to indulge you. This is the best example of what the Quake physics (CPM to be exact) represent: complete freedom. You aren't limited by anything in CPMA other than the maps and gravity. You can move in whatever way you want to move, at whatever speed you want to move - if you're good that is, but even a ****-tier newb like me has more freedom in CPM than in almost any other game.

It's a bug and an exploit and was not "put" there.

LOL! Not real physics. Not even close to real physics. That just explains why the holes in the game engine exist.

Subjectivity often has a place in explaining one persons feelings or opinions.

The jump phase of a triple jump is shorter than that of the long jump (which was my event in grade school) as jumping ALWAYS reduces your acceleration unless it's downhill. This isn't immediately noticeable because triple jumps are measured from the step phase while long jumps only measure the jump.

A quick look at my steam account:

I've never missed a main-series Quake game and even got some (all of them I think) again on Steam. When a mechanic blatantly defies real-world physics, it is not intuitive.

I read it. It said nothing I didn't already know. Everything in a game has math behind it. It doesn't mean that it has any basis in reality or that it would seem at all natural if you saw someone doing it in real life..

You're right though. You aren't restricted by anything, not even a semblance of physics.

Two things.
1. Like I explained, it's not random. It has rules aka physics. They're not a 1-on-1 copy of real world physics. Why does that even matter?
2. How does all of this not apply to skiing, which is apparently just fine?

Edit: Oh and a third, as condescending as it may sound, I get the impression you either mainly played singleplayer or in very casual environments where the "say no to exploits!" attitude and/or good movement did not matter. No offense, people play for different reasons and like different things ("Then why are you whiteknighting CPMA every change (*chance) you get!!!!" I don't start yelling about casualization when I see a Halo screenshot on here). Did you play duels, or tdm, or ctf? Pubs or PUGs?

And yet that same flawed function was intentionally never fixed and thus became canon in subsequent releases and re-iterations of the id tech engine, how did it make its way into derivatives of said engine like the iw engine or goldsrc when every single one of those developers could've fixed that function without breaking a sweat

Surely if it's an bug or exploit it would've been fixed by now

How does one define canon?

So yes, the function was put there, it wasn't put there on purpose in quake, but in jc's own remake of quake aka quakeworld and all subsequent releases.

Since when did game physics have to resemble "real" physics?

Also it doesn't explain why they exist but HOW they work (funny because that's what physicists do, try to explain how **** works)

But maybe you're just challenged with the distinction between game and reality, in which case you need professional help. Try talking to d34thmetal

Of course it's not a 1-on-1 copy, that's practically impossible. The problem is that it *directly conflicts* with very basic physics. Skiing is theoretically possible if you have a potent enough power source and jets pointing the proper directions. Not to mention Skiing was built upon and improved through it's various iterations.

Bunnyhopping wasn't removed from Quake for one reason, the same reason The Yogscast can never stop making Minecraft content cold turkey: Fear of fan reaction. There are plenty of examples where a company has a strong favorable reaction to an element of their work that they never expected to garner attention and now can't change it or even act like they don't like it because it would cause their fanbase to rage, resulting in less revenue.

As far as the ad hominem, that has no place in any debate. That's a reason I haven't brought up illusory superiority.

Have you considered that it wasn't removed for more legitimate reasons, like the reasons grimbar and I gave you? That's why it's in CPMA at least, I wouldn't know about vanilla.

Edit: Oh wait now I do: http://www.esreality.com/post/2376324/j ... pid2376350

Edit2: The first sentence is the important one.

I'm confused.

This is the first sentence of the link:

And this is the entirety of that post:

Are you finally agreeing with me?

Not at all. The point was that even John Carmack, who apparently hated bunnyhopping with a burning passion, admitted that it made the game better. I've seen a video of a game where both players didn't use strafe jumping and it was the most boring piece of **** I've ever watched. Both players just camped, spammed corridors and +backed. Without bunnyhopping, Quake would've been a boring, generic fps, that would not have lasted for more than a year. Instead of that, Quake was a great game which still has a reasonable community to this day.

inb4 but nobody plays cpma! CPMA has always been relatively smaller than vq3. Too demanding for most people - as in not what they were looking for, not as in lol everybody but cpm'ers are n00bs lololololol.

The point you made was quite opposite the point you tried to make.

Also just saw this edit:

The answer is: LAN. I didn't have internet until the early 2000's.
The first game I really got into online multiplayer with was Star Wars: Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast (on the Quake III Arena Engine). The clan I played with did not permit strafe-jumping and bunnyhopping was only of the dodging variety ("dancing") because anything otherwise was exploiting and seen as cheating. The game had a well developed and defined movement system already in place so we didn't need to exploit or cheat to feed illusory superiority.

I'm reaching here, but does anyone remember a group of people/clan in TFC that called themselves the Old Timers?

Maybe you didn't understand it right. How is that for some illusory superiority?

I know about Jedi Knight. What you don't seem to understand that strafejumping is NOT an exploit. It's an intended feature, with the purpose of making the game interesting and faster paced.

As for the entire illusory superiority accusation: I honestly believe cpma is the best fps ever made. I don't believe that makes me a better person. If you think I do, then it's something you superimpose. (on a side note: I could make the illusory superiority argument just as well as you do. You don't *like exploiting and therefore you think you're a better person).

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cheater

Cheaters play to win at all costs. We played to win without compromising respect or honor.
We played the game the way the documentation and design indicated (Except when we played mods or "fun matches"). You can do anything the rules say you can. You can't do things the documentation doesn't say.

They aren't fictitious. If it's not permitted, it's not permitted. If it's permitted, it's permitted.

Funny that you mention that.

I would define the rules of a game as simply what you can and cannot do. Therefore, if it's possible, it's within the rules. Any other 'rules' are superimposed; that have nothing to do with the game itself.

Edit: The ruleset of your clan is a great example of superimposed rules.

If that rule isn't in place - like in oh I don't know, probably every Quake tournament ever - then you don't violate any rules, therefore you're not a cheater.

How do you spell fictitious?