New neural networks coming to PA

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by Sorian, February 13, 2015.

  1. Sorian

    Sorian Official PA

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    I am all for funny.
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  2. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    does the neural net AI learn on each individual client, or is the learning process still centralized at Uber's office?
  3. Sorian

    Sorian Official PA

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    I train it on my home machine, generally. Training is disabled in the live builds (compiled out). I may look into changing that, so people running their own servers can do their own neural net training, if they want.
  4. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    This is incredibly interesting, it makes me appreciate human intelligence more, if only because I do not have to bump repeatedly into walls.
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  5. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    Yeah I guess no one is very suprised when a worm brain is pretty stupid. But SCIENCE! :D
  6. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    That would be a good idea, a true "adaptive AI". Have you considered a distributed computing model, as in, every client sends collected neural net data back to the server, and from that data you can put the best AI candidates in a deathmatch (or several deathmatches) and then push the winner into the next build and repeat the process.
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  7. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    Do you want Skynet? Because this is how we get Skynet. :p
  8. Sorian

    Sorian Official PA

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    Yes, and no. I have thought about it, but last I knew it was not possible to integrate neural network data from different sources into one network. That may have changed or may require a different structure that I am unaware of.

    That video is awesome. I love stuff like that. If I wasn't in games I would like to think I would be doing stuff like in that video.
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  9. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    I am actually very interested, because that is simulating a living thing, it does not need to be preprogrammed by a human, and it does need to be programmed to learn. You could make several thousand random mutations of that neural data, and then basically artificially evolve the virtual code via virtual natural selection in a short time that would take millennia in nature.
    http://www.damninteresting.com/on-the-origin-of-circuits/
    this is a good example, except with hardware evolution.
  10. GoodOak

    GoodOak Active Member

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    Sometimes you've got to take a long weekend if you ever want to get any work done.
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  11. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    There is a really good documentary you may like, where they made robots capable of learning.

    Right when the robot is turn on for example it instantly falls down (its on spider like legs) and it's amazing to watch it learn to stand up, and even walk!
  12. nixtempestas

    nixtempestas Post Master General

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    machine learning is an amazing field. There is a lot of work done at my university (university of alberta) in machine learning and robotics.

    Just recently they actually release a psycho poker AI that learned how to play just from the base rules. fun stuff http://poker.srv.ualberta.ca/about
  13. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    I have a few questions about the AI learning process...
    You said a while back that the AI plays against itself, right? I am definitely in favor of the AI learning differently on each client (and having those AIs moddable, sharable, able to be reset to default, and the server should, if possible, be able to do the learning for the client, and then send the data back after the game). Some of those are pretty far-fetched, but the AI would definitely be better if it adapted to the player playing against it, especially in galactic war. It'd force the player to be just as strategically flexible in a game vs. the AI as a game vs. the player.

    and I forgot the other question I was going to ask :|
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  14. nixtempestas

    nixtempestas Post Master General

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    I think the problem with adaptive AI is to get it to adapt quickly enough. If I'm not mistaken, it takes many, many games to build the neural net data (if you want to get an idea of what it can take, read the short article I linked in the post above yours). @sorian would be able to give a better idea of the requirements of course though.
  15. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    I specifically like the automation, the only thing that needs to be be programmed by people is the learning process and an end goal, it opens up many organic solutions to problems that people would never think of. I specifically, would like to see an AI start with the wright brother's aircraft and try to reach the end specifications equivalent to that of a modern passenger jet.
  16. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    what better place to play many many games than in an Uber sized galactic war.
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  17. Sorian

    Sorian Official PA

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    I trained the neural networks by having it play against itself a total of 1200 times. 600 games for the land network, and 600 for the fighter and bomber/gunship networks (they are easy enough to train at the same time).
  18. nixtempestas

    nixtempestas Post Master General

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    Hmmm, I'm curious, how much of a diminishing returns curve do you see with training? Would running say 5000 sessions have much of an impact over 1200?
  19. Sorian

    Sorian Official PA

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    Possibly. I may try more intense training in the future, but I was happy with the results after 1200. Also, my error rate was pretty dame low before I hit the 600 mark on the land networks, so even 600 may have been too many.
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  20. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

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    Get ready for the Steam forum to rage at this. :cool:
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