Nerfing juice could solve a lot of problems

I'd just remove Juice completely.

Without juice you have a unique game with great balance between the pros, turrets and bots that makes for really interesting matches.

With juice you have a unique game that quickly turns into yet another arena shooter where all the unique features are totally ineffective against the glowing, god mode pros.

EDIT: And I disagree with the previous poster who claims it would ruin the class balance of tank, assault and assassin. It would remove those classes ability to juice up and run rampage. I often play tank and juicing and attacking the enemy turrests and moneyball feels like I just hit the Cheat button.

Tank would probably be fine, if a bit sad. But it would still be a bigger hit to some pros then others, ruining the game's balance.

Good Assassins rely on juice to contribute to the team. They shred lanes, kill particularily annoying targets that are causing problems for your team using their high mobility, and they annihilate turrets with juice. That is their 3 core jobs, if your playing an assassin as a team player.

Removing juice kills 1/3 of that. Why would you play assassin if you cant juice when tanks can do almost all the assassins jobs so much better?

Barring juice, Tank is better for turret killing.

Tank is also a better pusher. So what would we need assassins for?

Removing juice would simply turn assassin into a lemming class. To be played like your in a TDM.

Juice is fine, right now OT is causing the problems with the turtle strategy and such.


They should do something about juice price though, as it is i do agree that it is far too accessible. Maybe raise the cost of juice or something, because you can easily earn back 200-300 in one juice, making your godmode spree only cost you 200-300 cash.

OR, maybe you cannot earn money while juiced (you still get the money on the rewards screen, but you dont actually get it while in the match to use on futur juice purchases). This would prevent some guy with 800 cash going on a 3-4x juice purchase spree and have 300-400 cash remaining (done it).

So is it one juice per team? or one juice per game? i figured you meant the last. If that is the case, then how will i pass the juice to the tank?

Anyway, it seems to me that after a whole 15 minute game, it becomes a one-shot mini-game where everyone is rushing to the Juice.
This does not solve the problem, this just creates the same problem in a new place.
Now the problem is everyone rushes to the moneyball juiced. Then the problem is everyone rushes to the juice.

No, i meant the C(ommodore) 64.

I disagree that it creates a disbalance. Also the $500 would not remain the same obviously.

Another reason to remove/degrade Juice: At this point i hardly ever spend money on turrets, why would i, a juiced assassin comes into our base and destroys 4 turrets.....in 10 seconds.....
I would like the turret aspect to have a greater effect on the game. Juice is a mayor factor in removing this effect for me.

Anyway, it seems we disagree. Maybe other posters can give their opinion.

Maybe an OT change would be enough. I agree that turtle/juice rush in OT is a game breaker. But I want to play a tower defense game with bots and pros. Turrets just seem like waste of money after the first few minutes. Even a Rockit 3 will be smashed by a juiced player and that's $1400 wasted. (Plus most turrets can be sniped/railed/grenaded from a safe distance anyway, but that's a different issue)

And if assassin is a worthless class without Juice, I'd argue that it's a worthless class full-stop. But then I think adding any stealth class is asking for trouble. Difficult to balance and appeals to griefers.

I think you are greatly underestimating the abilities of an Assassin. With Juice they can clear all 6 turrets in a base by themselves. Without Juice they can take down a Jakbot single handedly, one shot any player with one exception, deal damage at any range with no damage penalty (the Sniper is the only other class that can manage this), get to any area of the map using a level 1 skill, move faster than any other class, dash attack by using the reload button, disable turrets using their smoke bomb, etc. The Assassin has the best synergy of abilities bar none. The only class that even comes close to this is the Support and their lack of mobility isolates them to one specific area of the map unlike the Asssassin. Tanks, not so much.

Don't give juiced players super armor, juice already makes you dish out incredible damage, but being nearly unkillable (except vs a deployed gunner or a hacked rocket turret) is what really makes juice do too much.

Imo not giving the juiced pro the armor bonus (and possibly raising the juice machine price or giving it a cool down time) is all that is really needed to get things back on the right track.

Agreed; I've been advocating for a 60 second cooldown on purchasing Juice for a while now. I also agree that Juice needs to be adjusted slightly and refilling the Pro's health with only a damage bonus seems like plenty to me. It also would mean that turrets would still be destroyed quickly but they could not simply be ignored by a juiced player.

This might have been said before, but could a possible solution be to just remove juice dispensers from the game? They're too pricey to be used mid-game unless you're going for a win, so it seems they're mostly used just for the overtime juice rush, which is the problem that most people have with juice. If juice has to be earned rather than bought it's going to be a lot harder for a team to set up an OT juice rush.