My thoughts on the assault balance changes.

Actually the assault has very quick damage drop off with his assault rifle. The SMG has significantly longer range than even the assault rifle WHILE ZOOMED (though the assault rifle has better accuracy when zoomed.) And the grenade launcher has the 2nd lowest DPS in the game, it is tied with the railgun and beats the heal/hurt gun. Every other gun in the game has a higher DPS.. well unless you are doing unzoomed body shot sniper fire.

He is not good at mid range. He is good at long or close range. Same as the tank. The grenade was his saving grace at mid range. The point is to get in their face and use your jets to keep from getting grappled. Tanks eat assaults unless the assault headcrabs him. They eat him at close range, mid range, and long range. Gunners using the mortar also destroy assault at mid-long and using minigun at short - mid. He has to use his bomb to harass them, and his grenade launcher's ability to rebound to try and avoid line of sight.

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Also, even if he WAS good at mid range, he didn't "out damage" anyone. His damage output BARELY beats the assassin using the shuriken launcher (no damage drop off btw.) SMG is nearly as effective as assault rifle (for short bursts at least, the longer the fight goes on the assault rifle pulls ahead in dps. Though the assault has a harder time hitting the skinnier sniper.) Tank's jetgun has almost the same range as the assault rifles drop off range, and the rail gun is significantly easier to hit with than the grenade launcher and does the same DPS (o yeah and tank has 2x the assaults health.) Gunner's minigun even WITH damage drop off will out dps the assault at mid range. The only one that loses at mid range is the support (unless he has a firebase.)

Did assault need a nerf? YES HE DID. I fully agreed he needed a nerf. THE NERF THAT WAS GIVEN WAS TOO MUCH OF ONE. That is all I'm arguing. Find a middle ground between where he was and where he is now.

As just a factual exchange of information, I would very much appreciate someone explaining to me how Sin players are honestly comparing a Class Nerf (armor) to two skill nerfs that were vital to most of our play styles plus the same Armor nerf that the Sins had to suffer?

Actually the SMG has no falloff and the same damage as the upper limit of the assault rifle

I know people hate when I quote the hostile balance but:

BAL_SMG_DMGFULLRNG=1536
BAL_SMG_DMGFALLOFF=3072

SMG does have damage fall off

Why would someone hate quoting code? It's like pulling the laws of physics out of gods teeth, only possible.

True that it does have a falloff range, but the MINDMG is missing, so there's nothing for it to fall to

AssaultRifle
BAL_A_RIFLE_DMG =39
BAL_A_RIFLE_MINDMG =8 <- This parameter is missing from SMG

2 things that need to be "nerf modified" to make it a more balanced "nerfing"

this one is OPTIONAL. Have the bomb charge halfway only when it is deployed.

this one is an if/or statement.
Revert the cooldown speed of the charge skill.
If not, give us back the velocity of the charge itself. It's pathetic right now.

I like this idea

Bomb changes - hugely necessary. I was sick of Assaults throwing their bullshit half way across the map. The Bomb is one of the highest insta-damage weapons in the game, so it shouldn't be possible to throw it around so much.

Charge changes - people have misinterpreted what Uber mean by having to choose between using the Charge to get into combat and using it to retreat. LVL3 Charge makes you move faster and recharges faster, but locks you into an animation that can easily get you killed if done in the wrong place. LVL2 is the opposite, but can be used very well offensively. The Assault used to be able to escape easily with his Charge and use it to kill people. Now, he has to make a choice.

There was a reason that average Assaults were racking up Uber Streaks like they were going out of style. The only people whining about this update are K/D whores. Play Gunner and get someone to overheal you all the time if it matters that much.

Finally, to the people who seem to think the heavy classes have not been nerfed: jump-jetting around is now extremely difficult unless you enjoy waiting with a massive target on your head while the jets recharge.

This, is WIN.

Make a choice between getting into combat and getting out of it. Make a choice between covering your retreat with a bomb or leading your attack with it. The Assault was overpowered because he was able to do everything well. Now, he has to choose what to do carefully. If you're still sore about it, try picking up churros or stop running around like a lone wolf.

psycho...did...good?

The bomb is horrible for defence now. I used to use it while retreating to warn people off or to knock them away. Now, by the time it has armed the enemy has run past the radius of the bomb and is still in your face.

I think the major issue here is not that the assault was overpowered and is now underpowered. The issue is that before the assault could be played many different ways successfully. Now his play style is far more focussed and previously viable playstyles are no longer viable.

I used to main assault and would push bot lanes like crazy. My K/D was horrible but my bot kills were awesome. When I got attacked I'd try escape most of the time and just keep the lane open. I've found that my style of play is no longer viable for the assault. The charge seems to be forever on cooldown, the bomb is terrible for escaping and I get cut down by even the most half-hearted attempts. It seems like the only way to play the assault now is to use the bombs for laying traps and being a dead-eye with the AR.

/shrug. Gunner treats me better nowadays.

Jets were not nerfed this patch.

Bombs are 300+a few seconds of burn at level 3. They also fly slowly. A level 3 bomb is weaker than 2 mortar shots. This is all unless you get a headcrab. However headcrabbing people (except at close range) is the most skill based and difficult technique in the game. Proper product grenade rebounds are probably #2. The bomb needed a nerf to its moneyball damage, other than that it was fine.

Charge 3 is now on a 10second cooldown (compared to the original 6.66 seconds. or the tank's 7.5seconds.) has less damage against bots, shorter range, and a significant drop in speed. It doesn't gain ANY speed when leveled up (its recharge goes down but that is it.)

O btw, the charge currently can't even 1hit kill a BLACK JACK with charge 3.

The assault went from having about 5 different effective endorsement builds. To having 1 or maybe 2 builds that would make him viable but have to work alot harder than other classes to be equally as effective.

I recently started learning to play Tank after this patch, and despite the fact I considered myself a fairly decent assault. I'm a pretty crappy Tank. Yet I can kill more bots, more pros, more turrets, make more money and I know very little about the ins and outs of the class. As the assault I had to work very hard if I wanted to out earn the assassins/tanks/snipers on my team.

The point of the assault was that he could do everything well but was not the best at anything. Now he can't do anything well.

Psycho comes from the 360 version.

It's rather up to par with a Ground Zero, but then again that can be avoided if it's applied.

And how was it before the patch? You probably rocked the scoreboard right? That's the problem.

The assault was very good at everything before the patch (especially pro killing). Not the best but pretty close. That is not something I'd call "balanced".

Only if the there wasn't a really good tank or sniper on the enemy team. And once again:

I AGREED HE NEEDED A NERF BEFORE THIS He got OVER nerfed is my point. Find a mid ground between where he was and where he is now and he will be perfect.

As for being good at pro killing, he still wasn't as good as the gunner or sniper. Once again, the point of an all around class is to be good at everything but not the best. He is no longer GOOD at everything. He is now PASSABLE. He isn't unplayable, but he isn't worth playing when you can be much more effective for your team as a Tank/Assassin.

I don't want this to sound like L2P, but good Assaults will still be good and they will keep carrying their teams. The "middle" skilled players got hurt, yes. But don't say he is almost useles now, you just have to think more about how to use your skills

The problem is that the assault was meant to be the "jack of all trades" and the most flexible class for starters (Maybe not "meant to be" but he definitely was). Now he is extremely focussed and nowhere near as flexible as he used to be.

That doesn't mean that the guys that were good at playing the assault the way he needs to be played now are going to be much worse off, but it does mean that everyone who played him differently are much worse off now.

The problem is now-limited options from a class that was very open before the patch.

The patch notes didn't mention anything about the arming time of the Bomb - the time taken between you throwing it and being able to detonate it - being increased. Was it?

The Assault is OK at pushing Bots if he has Gold ROF, but that isn't really his main strength. Air-detonations are still viable, and now that the Bomb cooldown is faster you can still throw bombs around like crazy.

Yup, but some folks are under the impression that the Gunner and Tank have either been untouched or simply buffed. Mainly people who don't play them.

It also has huge pushback, and between the actual bomb damage and fire damage can damn near take out even armoured Supports. Being able to essentially hit someone twice in quick succession with the Bomb was not on. Also, Mortars are very easy to see in mid-air. Bombs, not so much.

I was under the impression that as you upgraded it, the speed you moved at while charging increased. Someone posted the numbers earlier in this thread. The Assault shouldn't be Charging into Bots anyway, he's not a close-range Bot pusher.

What Endorsement builds were they? Armour was essential, followed by ROF, Skill Recovery and Accuracy. Plenty of Assaults could coast along to Uber Streaks. Now they can't.

Tanks do make a lot of money, particularly due to the increased number of Bots and Bot streaks. Kill more d00ds?

He's still a good Pro-killer. He still has excellent mobility. He's still one of the fastest classes. He's still a demon while Juiced. He can still rip unspun Gunners and unaware Tanks to shreds. Maybe you just weren't taking advantage of his speed and such before the patch? Adapt or die.

Basically, the Assault can plug gaps in your defence and needle the enemy from unexpected angles quickly due to his excellent speed and mobility and decent survivability.. However, he needs the help of more focused classes to really excel. Most people before the patch played Assault as a lone wolf. Now, he is more team-focused. THIS IS A GOOD THING

Yea I actualy have said that before on these forums, just didnt wanted to repeat myself ^^, and that they will have hard time now, but he is not so useles as eternal is saying

Hmmm... I tried looking up where I remember reading that the arm time was increased and can't find it. I could be wrong on the arming time. It may have just seemed like ages since I can't escape anymore.
/shrug. I'm kinda bored of the whole assault nerf argument now to be honest. Time will tell what the actual changes are and how badly it affects the player-base. I've said my 0.02 and am happy playing the gunner for now. I enjoyed the assault but can't play him effectively since the patch. "Adapt or die?" I picked up a minigun.