Multiplayer mods MIGHT split the community

Don't you think that's quite the bold statement for being in Alpha still?

What's the difference between mods splitting the community, and people getting bored and leaving for other games?

In both cases the core group of players decreases in size. I can't make any distinction between the two. If you're upset that mids split the community, then what are you going to do about people leaving?

Putting it another way; both are a fact of nature. You don't get butthurt over one, so why should you be butthurt over the other?

I think he's probably just trolling us, in the old-school sense. Also explains the post-text quotes.

But something that does separate them is the fact that a player that gets bored and leaves the game isn't likely to play it anymore, whereas if a player is primarily playing a specific mod is at least still playing PA.

Mike

I think he's just too used to email (in which the standard is to reply at the top). It works great in one-to-one conversations, but fails miserably in the public space.

This!

Modding is a way to keep games fresh and interesting. I even know games that mods made so much better that I would not even consider running them vanilla. (I'm looking at you Bethesda RPGs with your console inventory!) Some of the most successful games ARE mods!

Allowing modding is giving the player the freedom to enjoy the game in the way he wants. No player has the right to deny another player to install a mod and enjoy it unless it collides with the Terms of Service. (cheat, hack, copyright infringement...)

I'm quoting from Kickstarter:

Modding is a core feature of Planetary Annihilation. I have seen a lot of familiar faces from the SupCom modding community here and I'm sure that modding support has encouraged them to help and fund PA. Modding isn't going away.

I would like to put the focus of this thread back where it belongs:
What features are needed for modding support to make it user friendly so it won't split the community?

Personally, I think people leaving a game when they get bored of it is a natural outcome. Like you said, not much can be done about it.

But when it comes to balance mods (which I should have specified in my earlier thread and not lumped them in with other mods as a whole), I feel it's as if a game's community is willing to subdivide itself into smaller groups when this doesn't have to be the case.

Again, I cite Starcraft's gaming population as evidence of this. 10+ years later and its gaming community is still going strong. PA (and other RTS games) should only be so lucky....

Again, just my opinion and others (not referring to you) shouldn't get "butthurt" over it just because they don't agree with it. The same can be said about my forum writing style.

mods can't fragment the community because everyone has access to them.

Logical fallacy.

How do you know that the people still playing are only doing so because of the lack of mods? You don't.

Further, can you provide evidence that the number of people who've stopped playing StarCraft is smaller than that of RTS games that support modding?

How do you know that they are? Whoever is left playing Starcraft, at least they're still one unified group of gamers and not splintered among balance mods.

You and the others may as well give it a rest. You all are not going to convince me otherwise and Uber is still allowing mods anyway.

If I stopped playing TA, it's not because of mods. It's just too hard to setup a game with my friends. There is always someone which cannot connect or see the game.
Some small problems with the UI just show TA age a bit too strongly.

Those two problems could have been fixed if Cavedog would have been maintaining the game. ( or if they had released the source ).

Imagine if Starcraft did had the same support as TA, it would not even have a TCP/IP connection for multiplayer.

Exactly my bloody point!

Neither of us know either way. I have provided just as much evidence to back up my claim, as you have to back up your claim... that is to say, none at all.

I love statistics without facts.

I will add mine to that.
My guess would be that for many (<- guess with arbitrary number based on personal feeling) the named balance mods wouldn't split the player base as long as the loading of a certain mod set is automatic and hands-free. A bit of documentation what mods are currently used and a short list of changed features would be also nice for the lobby.
At least I (<- here I'm sure ), have no problem if different games have slightly different balance as long as I can inform myself with a quick look, what the differences are.

Personally, I'll wait for all the gamers' hating, flaming, criticizing, brow-beating, and "refusal to play other balance mods" to start once balance mods come into existence. Then, I'll do my best to avoid saying "I told you so".

You are mistaken if you think the PA-gaming community is "special" or "different" from any other gaming community.

"This has all happened before and this will all happen again...."

And until you provide something more substantial than a few anecdotes, your claims will be nothing more than common coincidence.

Makes no difference at the end of the day if it's coincidence or otherwise. When it happens is what matters most of all.

Unlike others, I'm more concerned about what happens to the PA community of gamers, not about being right or wrong.

I think omega has a good point about the balance mods. If a balance mod with any kind of popularity appears for PA then it will threaten the competitive players.

The reason Sc2 is competitive is because there are no popular balance mods for it. The matchmaking and ladder is purely for the vanilla game. This lends credibility to the balance of the game. If Sc2 allowed for mods to match players and rank them with other players of the same mod then on day 1 there will be a mod to nerf medivacs, zergling rushes and immortal/sentry all-in. Whenever a player gets to Grandmaster in any mod his achievement will mean nothing because someone will just say "You suck because you're playing an unbalanced mod". Plus, it would be far easier to climb to GM in a modded version with a population of 1,000 (or whatever) as opposed to 300,000 and this further dilutes any rank you may achieve.

If Sc2 was like this, many competitive players would never touch Sc2 again.

I don't think PA will support mods with a ranking system, though. The logistics of such a thing is head-ache inducing and would only serve to destroy the competitive community like the scenario outlined above. So, the only way balance mods will become popular is if the PA development team designs the game so poorly that in desperation the community comes up with a balance mod to make the game playable. I don't think that will be necessary.

I think the biggest threat mods bring to the table is not the mods themselves but the amount of attention they receive in terms of screen space. Mods should be treated like custom games are in Sc/Sc2/Wc3. They should be a side thing, tucked away in a menu, not the main focus of the game. A user should be able to open up PA see a huge "RANKED MATCHES" button and in one click start looking for a ranked match. That should be the focus. Mods should be tucked away in a custom games button.

The separation is important. Imagine if there wasn't a ranked matches button and all vanilla games and modded games were in a big list of servers like CSS. Do you want to sort through all of that to find a game? I don't.

Great points! I'm glad to see that someone else can appreciate my concern.

I think the biggest threat to any gaming community are concerned players who want to dictate in which way other players may or may not enjoy the game.