Multiplayer mods MIGHT split the community

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. From not having TA installed to having TA and FAF installed and starting a game, what are the steps a user must go through? I know FAF cannot be accessed from a vanilla install alone. The first step is probably "browse to FAF website and download the installer." I hope PA doesn't allow for that kind of modding because it's detrimental to the game, as outlined in the first post.

PA could create a powerful API which would allow for modifying stats, art assets and creating AI and game logic, thereby eliminating the need for an outside party modifying executables, game files or injecting foreign code into the game. Such an approach is very brittle to any patches and it helps to alienate players from one another.

A powerful editor or script engine has the following advantages:
1) It will be far less susceptible to breaking after a patch
2) A public API gives the opportunity for more people to get involved in the modding scene because it will be documented and easier to use. No hacking into binary files required.
3) A public API will open a social channel between developers and modders where modders can communicate what they need to make great mods and the developers can get new ideas for great features, which benefits everyone.


This isn't a new concept, css and other games do this very thing. So, I guess what I'm arguing for is the restriction of mods that modify game files. Instead, we should adopt a scripted mod system. Such a system should satisfy the user stories in the first post.

Umm ok I guess that is the first step then. This is because FAF is a fanmade multiplayer matchmaking system to replace FA's lack of matchmaking after official servers were taken down. Obviously this would be integrated into PA and not as some separate download.

The arma community is not split. It's just the arma community and it has varying tastes, being a niche simulator crowd. If you want to play ACE, load ACE, or not. The various Six updater clients have been a godsend though, even if they're not nice to use, they work.

Basically, there needs to be an equivalent of Six for PA.

But the arma community IS split in the sense that some players will play Mod1 on this server, while others will play Mod2 on that server, etc.

The same will happen to PA's community.

I just wish that other RTS games would follow Starcraft's lead and just have ONE game and ONE unified pool of gamers.

But if you could seamlessly switch between servers running different mods, is this still an issue?

Theoretically, no, it's not an issue.

But realistically, most players will find that they prefer Mod 1 over Mod 2 (or even vanilla PA). That will lead to players spending most, if not all, of their time playing a particular mod.

It happened with TA (which had a 3rd party mod switcher). It WILL happen with PA.

The only RTS game where it has NOT happened is with Starcraft. And that's because players don't have a choice. There is only one version of Starcraft to play.

So EVERYONE plays it and there are LOTS of gamers to pick and choose from in multiplayer matches.

I don't see how it's any different then having your own game community?

I don't see how this isn't an issue of having more than one game mode, instead of an issue of having mods.

Why? What's the benefit? A unified pool of gamers is worthless. So long as you've got enough population to play the game mode you enjoy, everything's fine.

Everyone playing what they want to is a good thing.

Please put the quote you're responding to before your text. This is how forums work

Just remember your words when you're stuck playing the same 3 or 4 other gamers playing your favorite PA mod/game mode one day ....

And when I get tired of them, I play a different, but still fun mod/game mode

Ok.

TA :
- Install TA.
- Install WarZone. (http://www.ewarzone.com/).
- Link Warzone to TA, deal with some DLL thingy.
- Download & install mods.
- Host or join a game of your choice.
- Play.
- You have to download & install extra maps manually.

FA Steam :
- Install Steam.
- Download FA.
- Download & install Mod.
- Host or join a game of your choice.
- Play.
- You have to download & install extra maps manually.

Planetary Annihilation :
- Download UberNet Launcher thingy.
- Download PA.
- Download & Install mods.
- Host/join the game of your choice (handle the map in that process).
- Play.

FAF :
- Install FA (any version, any patch version).
- Install faf (http://www.faforever.com).
- Host/join the game of your choice. (actually no difference if it's a mod or normal FA, they are handled the exact same way, all is auto-patched). Handle map download in the process.
- Play.

Hm, so far, steps wise, FAF wins

I will wait to see if Uber is able to do better than me

FAF is not a mod. It's a full client. Like UberNet.

Also, if they don't have such way of doing things, if something happens to Uber (I don't wish them that, but we know it happens), PA is dead.

Concerning your OP, you have to make a big distinction between Balance mod, game modes mod and "units" expansion.

Game modes mod and "units" expansion keep the game fresh and don't really divide the community. (if you don't believe me, I have tons of stats about it )

Balance mods can easily kill any game by splitting the community and confusing new players. It killed Warzone 2100, it killed TA Spring, FAF does NOT support any.

In FAF, mods are accessible by a simple click, and each hosted game clearly state what mod it's using. Joining the game give you automatically the mod, no user effort needed.
It's really easy to switch between mods, it's probably even easier than starcraft 2 (no third-party site needed to download the map/mod).

Also, FAF has an autopatch system that keep the download needed to a minimum. Even if the mod is heavy (like BlackOps), only the first download will be long. Any further version will be a few kb to download.
Actually, regularly some people are asking me how to patch the game, because they don't notice that the client does it (it's too fast

Balance mods are nothing but detrimental. There should only be, at the most, one or two of them. Problem is, everybody and their dog can change the values for units in such a flexible system, and for some reason, everybody is willing to do just that.

Hopefully, we are all mature people here (the age poll indicated 99% of us are at least mid-late teens), and hopefully that alone should keep people from making pointless, childish balance changes.

A general rule for balancing is "A unit rebalance is only needed if a single unit is used every match or never used ever."

Or, from a biologist's perspective, "No two units can occupy the same niche at once, and unlike in real life, there are niches that are entirely useless."

I have the whole GPG mod vault repository on my HD, guess what are 70% of the mods there...

My impression is that the first 2 steps are the same, and the 3rd one will be behind the scenes like in FAF

You download Ubernet that itself download PA (or the other way around I don't remember).
Like Steam downloads games.

I could make FAF download FA, but they are some legal issues there

I don't know how PA will handle mod, but so far you have to download them manually. I can't see the future.

(As far as I can tell, it could require to rent a dedicated server because you don't have the upload needed to host it yourself, install PA server there, install the mods, link the server to Uber network, .....)

I pretty sure they're planning to do better than manual install, but right now the focus is making things work nice

We've all played games with modding communities before. There will be hundreds of rebalance mods. Nobody will play them, they are harmless. They serve as a learning experience to their makers (and a lesson in humility I suppose). If Uber are any good at balancing, nobody will play a single rebalance mod.

Such is life. If you had your "unified" way, I wouldn't even have the chance to play my game mode in the first place.

I can't quite believe people are arguing against modding.

Balance mods.

And they will fracture and split the PA community.

It's happened before. It will happen again....

No they won't. Stop spreading FUD.