Most Underpowered Class?

1. You do not instantly kill someone, it takes a few seconds.
2. You do not instantly kill someone, the target can survive.
3. It sure is a risk, during the grapple animation you can be shot and when the grapple ends, other players will know where you will be, leaving you very vulnerable.
4. Whether it was intended or not, it is still a nerf (the character is getting weaker), where i do not think the class needed it.

Actually the damage occurs almost instantly when the animation begins. If the Assassin uses a lunge+grapple combo the grapple will finish off any opponent even if the Assassin dies during the animation. The player being grappled will simply stand up and die even if the Assassin is killed during the animation. So yes, the damage is instant but the Assassin's recovery is not. Any Assassin not softening the target prior to grappling will learn or should not be playing an Assassin. Also, there is a kill cam in this game, if the player wants to talk they can tell their entire team where any player that killed them is currently, the Assassin is no different.

As for this being a 'nerf' it is not. It is a balance update as Uber never intended the Assassin to be able to do these things. Just because it 'weakens' the Assassin does not mean that they are nerfing it for being too strong as they are simply fixing many of the issues with the class. If it turns out that the Assassin is too weak after this fix then Uber will likely buff the class slightly. Again, a nerf implies that they are toning down the stats, not fixing a problem. In this case they are fixing multiple problems not adjusting any stats.

So killing someone instantly includes softening the target? I guess every class can kill instantly then.
When i said "know where the assassin will be" i meant right after the grapple, the assassin will return to a predetermined position and is an easy target. I did not mean the general location as in "somewhere there".

I guess we have different definition of "nerf".

That depends on which grapple it is. The damage isn't done until the weapon goes in, and that's different depending on the weapon used, front/back, and the weight of the target. For example, against light classes, the dagger back grapple does its damage almost immediately, but the sword back grapple does it near the end.

Interrupting the sword back grapple before it's finished will usually prevent the damage. An assassin can also use that delay to grapple a player who is still juiced, but have the damage occur right after the juice wears off, for a kill.

It's not just that they know where the assassin is, it's that they can stand there waiting for the grapple to finish. She's completely helpless to save herself from someone else's shotgun, charge, bomb, grapple, etc. if she is noticed doing a grapple near another player.

That's fine, I'd say, just don't grapple near other people. But now this change will make it so assassins shouldn't grapple near other people OR turrets OR bots. That leaves a whole lot less possible targets.

Now you're just arguing semantics. You seem to have a very precise definition for a word which has no precise definition. Or does it just change to suit your point of view?

The only thing "nerf" implies is that something is being made less dangerous, like how a Nerf gun is less dangerous than a real gun.

Oh, by two burst nuke damage soruces I meant Charge 3 + Blossom. Not blossom + blossom. I don't know what the new damage output of charge + blossom will be, but I imagine it will be enough to kill all but Gunners/Passive 3 Supports with Gold armor once you factor in the burn damage.

But yes, the change is definitely needed.

So when I'm back grappled by someone, how much time do I have to respond? Oh that's right there is nothing I can do. I was doing something and now I'm helpless. The damage is instantaneous. It would be different if I could use juice while grappled or if the damage took a few seconds to occur in the fashion of a very short DoT. Zarakon, I like how you say... the target usually lives if the animation is interrupted. Great! Sometimes when I kill you before you put the sword in the target....my friend still dies anyway. That seems fair if you ask me.

The animation is so short that even standing right next to someone it is hard to kill them before the animation finishes. Sure I'll probably kill the assassin afterward but it's not the same. Shouldn't something be able to interrupt a grapple? A slam seems like a perfect skill for that. Shouldn't you be able to grab someone who is currently grappled? I think that would make a nice change too (interrupt their grapple and do your own).

When you cloak while grappling it makes it take longer for others kill you. That gives you extra time so the "duration of the grapple" becomes less of an issue.

How often have you played support? Do you think it's fair to push across the map and setup your turret only to have someone "cheat" so that your turret doesn't get to shoot him?

How would you feel if support characters could become momentarily invisible to your base turrets? Level 3 rocket turret? Ha Ha, I just stole it because I used the turret invisibility trick too. Guess what, supports can do this right now and both are way out of line.

How long would you say the delay is between a perfect rear lunge and grapple? If you lined it up right there is nothing they can do to get away. That's instant enough.

Considering that this game includes moves that prevent your enemy from responding, there are several possibilities for an "instant kill". Get someone in this situation and they die without being able to respond. The level 3 tank charge, jet, spin combo is such an attack. Killing someone while they can't do anything is effectively instant. A gunner example would be hiding a spinning minigun at certain locations. I can be at effectively zero health and if you pop in you're dead before you get to attack (unless you are a heavy class). But it looks like you can lunge or charge and that's why it works so well.

Damage definitely isn't instantaneous. I've saved others and been saved from assassinations plenty of times.

You missed the boat:

Considering that this game includes moves that prevent your enemy from responding, there are several possibilities for an "instant kill". Get someone in this situation and they die without being able to respond.

Often I kill assassins before the animation is completed and my teammate still dies. Like I said before... it's instant enough.

As someone mentioned earlier, the time it takes for the damage to land depends on the assassination. A back assassination with a dagger is pretty much instant, you're not going to save anyone from that. But a back assassination with a sword takes considerably longer. It's quite easy to stop one of these with explosive rounds before the damage is done. And yes, if there is no one around to help you then the damage might as well be instant, but the point is that you're supposed to prevent these attacks rather than wish for a way to interrupt them.

So your advice is to prevent instant death attacks from invisible attackers? I do my best by walking on ledges, but it doesn't help allies without jetpacks.

After this update, my vote is changed to assassin..

Ah... day one balancing panic.



But now that the assassin is not a walking instakiller... who will I fear? :shock:

I'm tempted to say all are still balanced, but assassin's Pro killing capabilities are easily the worst in the game at the moment (post patch). She still has a role in bot control though. Will need to test more to give an opinion.

She takes a big hit in that role early-game. The dagger lunge nerf has a big effect on player killing, bot killing, and turret killing

I'm sorry but they didn't nerf the dagger lunge, they fixed it as it was blatantly OP previously. Bots are still quickly destroyed using normal attacks and the lunge is still effective in closing the distance to your target. Turrets are still easy to kill with the smoke bomb and normal strikes. About the only thing that was 'nerfed' is the Pro killing power early in the game as previously the broken dagger lunge damage+grapple could combo almost any Pro to death. Good to know that an entire class relied so heavily upon a broken mechanic.

It wasn't blatantly OP. It was just blatantly unintended to be that way. The unintentional damage boost to the Dagger ended up keeping her from sucking as bad as she does now.

I don't think the Assassin is underpowered overall at the moment, though I could see why some people disagree initially. It is tough to have to rely on stealth for most of the early going, and somewhat less in the late game. I think the problem could be that people just don't want to play the way the update forces an Assassin to play, as they don't find it fun. This doesn't necessarily mean it is underpowered. I could be wrong though, this is just based on my experience.

Now that the update is out, Im switching from perfectly balanced to assassin is UP. If they are remotely close to a firebase or turret you cant kill them unless they stand still long enough for shurikens. Im ok with the dagger nerf though.

I think dagger needs a slight buff in damage so it does at least the same as a dagger hit, not the same as a right stick melee.