More orbital units?

.....why is that?

exactly that ... and imho the avanger already is the "t2 superiority" unit ... it adds nothing of significance to have another fighter it just makes either the lower tier useless or is useless to begin with ... we dont need another fighter but something that does things entirely different ... i mean we are reading about lack of orbital variety constantly but the thing is pure attackwise we have already everything we need .. does it realy help to add a orbital bomber or gunship for when you have them both as airtypes and a satalite that attacks ground and now air too? im sry but i seriously am getting tired of shoving unitideas into the pool most of the suggestions i have readen so far rarely are well thought trough ... people ask for unitvariety but the kind of variety they ask for isnt truely diverse .. instead it becomes a thing of "moremoremoremoreunittypes" but in the end it starts to all feel the same ... imho opinion there isnt realy so much more to add unitwise except maybe up to 3 hovercrafts, 1 or 2 amphibous units be it a vehicle or a salemtype ship, the subs we had before but i dont count them as new, 4 more transportunits and maybe 1 further orbital unit ... so thats like 11 more units (structures not included) ... may not sound much numberwise but potential impactwise imo it is a whole lot ...

nobody said anything about more units full stop ... i ask for truely diverse ideas for more units concidering the existing unitpool

another thing i am quite shocked about is how some people expect more units yesteryear ... i mean are we realy so greedy for more content? making a new unit isnt something you do in just a week ... depending on complexity it may take up to a month or more

also sry for double

I definitely do too. It'd be really nice to have factions or something of that sort. I really don't see them adding that anytime soon though.

Having more orbital bombardment variety would really add more to the strategy of orbital units. Also considering tier 2 air is completely useless in anything but a team game I really don't see why you're using gunships as a reason to why we shouldn't have orbital "gunships" or "bombers". All it takes to counter an SXX is an umbrella or an anchor to begin with so why don't we have something that can counter umbrellas or even anchors? You could argue umbrellas should never be able to be countered but with them being so cheap and easy to produce I honestly think they should be.

Well, one unit set, because these are the best units, but the faction AI do play differently.

As for umbrellas, I dunno, we could have a orbital anti-building siege unit, but even then it would have to be different then the SXX laser, and also be something that wouldn't replace it either.

*Shrugs* I kinda wish orbital transports moved after then the umbrellas turret so they could 'hot drop' troops by them in order to clear the skys for sxx arrival.

The SXX feels kind of worthless for everything except maybe sniping an ACU. I noticed that whenever I played and an umbrella had been built on someone's base SXX just seemed useless unless you wanted to keep a moon clear or maybe even destroy a teleporter.
All I want is an orbital transportation unit and something that can bombard units effectively and not just static targets. Imagine a low DPS splash damage version of the SXX. I'd love to have that. It'd be a lot more useful in my opinion.

so basicly lets make air even less usefull giving orbital the equievalents? yea THAT´s how you do ballance!
how to counter umbrellas? nukes at worst ... or get your troops down avoiding umbrellas or obscuring them with numbers of avengers for the time being ... or use teleporters ...
multiunittransports will come down the line

I'll put my 2c into this discussion.

Rather than adding an orbital unit we can all build or spam why not instead have it as a terrain anomaly/encounter. Similar to the Annihilaser, instead of building a catalyst or something you give it hardpoints that need to be constructed or repaired. On top of that give it some health that needs to be repaired separately and then a launch timer (fluff could be energy load up and what not)

You could probably make different variations on the unit, basic purpose of it could be what the OP is stating, a spearhead unit that can kick off an invasion which doesn't require death lasers or rocket propelled space rocks.

Could probably put up several ways to encounter it (In a drydock with some health intact but no hardpoints what so ever, crashed on planet or in water with severe damage/missing hardpoints, locked in orbit missing hardpoints and some damage with defense systems operational, etc)

This way it also drives more conflict which is good for the game. And for the variations on it you could have one that is a dedicated orbital/air transport, another one which is a planet cracker which just decimates defenses but lacks any orbital defense, another one which is really quick to travel between planets/systems but lacks damage potential and unit carry capacity.

Guess it's up to the Devs but that's my suggestion to this thread.

build or spam what? i don´t get what you want to say ...

like what? a experimental?
transports and fabbers making teleporters are what kick off a invasion you just send avangers and build anchors allong with them ..

still not sure what you are talking about but that sounds more and more like an experimantal i am against ...

transports will come .. the planetcracker of this game is the metalplanet, so why make another? and you have the ssx for killing buildings

not to be a jerk or anything but have you sandboxed the game thoroughly yet?

I'll break apart with your replies and hopefully clear it up.

1) Not simply adding a unit to the roster which can be freely built/spammed instead add a terrain "feature" (Like the Annihilaser Catalyst mini focus) that has a chance to appear in games thus avoiding build/spam

2) Similar but not quite as powerful, it should have counters (and proper supporting units to ensure those counters are kept in check) so you don't just throw it around systems.

On the fabbers and teleporters you need a rock to atleast get into orbit and nuke a landing to clear most of the ground units and that only works if there's a rock there to move. There's not much to punch a hole in the orbital layer. A competent player will be able to knock most fabbers/support out of their orbit and for any teleporters that do go up they will be demolished promptly before they become any serious threat.

If there's a tight defense on orbital then it can become a grind and quite easy to defend against. This is here to punch a hole but not demolish the entire orbital layer.

3) Make it a terrain feature when you encounter it. If you're so against it I don't see why you can't just damage it before it's built and set loose.

4) On the transports I hope so.

That metal planet laser is more of an exterminatus tool. I mean planet cracker as a ground pounder system. Like a heavy artillery unit bombarding the ground units.

SSX is good but slow and it's more efficient to try and snipe the enemy commander with them than take out buildings.
If you want a planetary invasion you kinda want your units to land and fight on the ground, what I'm proposing is a unit that creates that beach head, while still having valid counters if and when metal planets/ asteroids aren't available anymore.

You're not sounding like a jerk, I'm just reading some critique. Yes I've also sandboxed with AI and friends. With my friends we're currently limited to the slowest rig, with the AI I find myself either running out of asteroids in custom made maps or racing for the Annihilaser. This suggestion adds some variety.

generaly you punch defenses with nukes at worst (yeah i know antinukes)
about planetcracker ... seriously the best thing i can think of is a mobile orbital missile launcher or artillery with splash and uber long cooldown but that´s it ... and i am still not realy keen on that as it still slike something the ssx kinda can/does ...
terrainfeature as in having it generated on a planet sounds too random or i am missunderstanding something
as for a unit that creates beachheads .. well as said transports and eventualy more likely ... unitcannon
if avoiding everything antiorbital shall be a thing while still getting units to the enemy it will be the unitcannon ... i am quite possitive on that ...

Fair enough on the unit cannon but it does have restrictions (Can't remember where I read this but it was on a much earlier thread)

Apparently it can only be built on smaller planets (Not sure what size) obviously moons would count but I guess it's size dependent and how many can you build on a planet? will it be capped? If they can be built at will or spammed then you could mix them with halleys and just wreak havoc on a system by switching to target planet orbits then raining down units. The only problem I see with that combo is we're not sure what the exact mechanics will be behind it. I'm eager for a cannon spitting out units but I want to see if there will be any interception options, since in the kickstarter video you could see the bots 'jet packing' down once their pods hit low orbit. And once you do have the moon base set up with an orbital layer defence, how do we go about breaching it? It's more tightly packed around the smaller planet.

For the nukes you need to be in orbit of your target planet. Most of the time the orbiting moons/planets will already have bases established by the enemy so anti-nukes aren't much of a priority to destroy.

That's the point of the terrain feature, it doesn't need to pop up every single game. You could have it cancel out the Annihilaser by taking up it's spot with the encounter so instead of building catalysts your building up this orbital platform ship thing.

On the beach head, Transports gotta get through, you'll need enough support units and anchors won't help if you get overwhelmed by the defenders avenger/anchor mix before you set yours up. You'd want to set up a teleporter to build an umbrella.

You need orbital units to secure a beach head, and for that you need A LOT to punch that hole, then you'll need lots of fabbers making teleporters and hoping one survives the defenders retribution. To set up orbital superiority you really only got one choice, spam. Or get ground control and try and build enough umbrellas.


SXX sniping is fine but you need a ton of avengers to support your lasers and even then you hope the umbrellas don't knock them out.

Hopefully you see where I'm coming from here. I see that experimentals (while funny) are eventually useless if you can't move them to another planet. I know the Devs cancelled them out with planet smashing and the Annihilaser but that inadvertently added the race to the halleys and lasers.

I'm not advocating the addition of experimental units on everyone's roster, instead a random encounter that can spice up the mid-late game. This isn't adding a unit to everyone's immediately available unit pool. It's adding another conflict driver that doesn't make every unit around it immediately useless period, instead it presents a viable strategy that can be countered with the proper approach.

we don´t know how it will actualy funktion .. it could be just limited to orbiting planets/moons and requiere halleys for reorbiting thus allowing mobile bases or it could just as well be used from everywere on everywere
i would like the bots to actualy be not interceptable because then the defending player cant just rely on antiorbital and groundcombat is insured to happen ... however the bots should spread over an area a bit when landing

scouting is always neccesary, but you can as well just blindfire the nuke aswell sooo not too much a deal there .. not that i recommend that ...

sounds rather like modcontent to be honest ... i am not realy keen to have it like this in vanilla ...

If there is one issue currently it is that Air units are too good agaisnt obrital invasion and orbital units are not nearly good enough.
If you queue the landing order that Umbrella will maybe have 1-2 shots at the entire armada. The phase the Astreyus spend in airspace is the real problem and where most planetary invasions are either won or lost.

Also 5 SXX dropping into orbit exactly above the commander can just snipe him in one salve before umbrellas and fighters even have a chance to take them down.

Plus by the time you actually have the resources for a proper invasion the enemy can propably fire a defensive nuke strike onto your teleporter beachhead.

i honestly never saw the teleporter as a propper startinginvasion tool it is rather a structure to get reinforcements quickly thus being the actual beachheadentry/foothold .. nukes won´t matter much once multiunittransports are in because destroing those with nukes would be rather wastefull and a player would have a rather easy time to replenish their loses on that ... also i think you won´t be able to rely on antiorbital too much for when the attacker eventual breaks through .. but that is rather speculation on my part ... but generaly i think once propper tranprts are out they will have quite an impact on gameplay ...

Personally I'd like there to be another Fighter scale unit (anti structure/anti-large unit) Make Avengers better at anti small unit, worse at anti structure) This unit would have a long range missile attack good at anti capital ship and anti structure, but couldn't defend itself vs other units.

A Cruiser With good anti orbit small unit long range, no anti-ground very poor anti-structure, The Cruiser would be good at defending an invading force vs lightweight orbital, but couldn't crack the ground. defenses

A Battleship type unit (very long range anti orbit poor vs small (fighter scale) units, plus short range anti ground bombardment. (Similar to a mobile Anchor, remember them?) It would be slow, but heavy HP Perhaps give the Battleship a special attack of being able to build a nuclear bomb that could attck ground or orbital within a short distance.

Also add a "Carrier" that can move, build small units, has poor defensive capability but can area repair other units (at high energy and mass cost of course) Only allow small units to travel interplanetary distances when they're in a short distance of a carrier and they're sent at the same time. Similar in speed and HP to the Battleship.

I figure 3 large orbital units at least gives us the standard rock paper scissors choices to make (whether rock paper scissors is a perfect solution is peripheral, it's a basis, not finality. I want hundreds of units for this game, and I think mods will be our ultimate solution.)

A T2 level Orbital turret (call it a defensive station?) with much longer range orbital, but no anti ground (a missile turret in my eyes)

Another method of making orbital more interesting would be to make certain activities more or less effective on or above different planet types. eg.

Large orbital unit production bonus over Gas and Moon. (Because that's where they're coolest imo)

Nuclear missiles/Anti nuke capability bonuses on Lava planets Mass generation bonuses on Lava Planets. Penalties to sensors running on these planets (too much background information from the volcanoes etc)

Mass and Energy production penalties on or over metal planets. (the machine god takes it's meal)

Bonuses to orbital sensors running on or over moon and ice planets. Possibly a new sensor array that can only be built on or above these types of planets that lets you see practically everything, these would be a "super weapon" scale sensor.

Bonuses to solar arrays above planets near the sun, penalties if they're far from the sun.

But yeah, orbital is rather bland currently, it could be much more interesting with more units/"terrain"

YES. Obviously, they'd need to be as different as possible while expanding on the same role, but YES.

Please do, have been waiting for this mod since forever.

some of your suggestions violate the WYSIWYG philosephy ...
as for orbital RPS? avanger, umbrella, ssx ... well kinda
personaly except for the carrier that i rather want defensless and only realy carrying i don´t like any of your suggestions ...

why battleships? why would you build avengers then? also your descriptions are confusing "no anti ground, poor antistructure"? so what is it ?

.... .... .... ... *SIGHHHHHH*