Modular Factories

So the problem is, you have 10 land modules chugging away pumping out land units. Do we allow the player to build a single air module, and then we have an 11 module factory capable of build land AND air units?

I don't think that would be a good idea. You'd want to make the player grow his base toward the kind of production he wants, not just give him 3 choices (land/air/sea) and then 'whichever modules gives me the most build power'. The system needs to encourage a choice and a balancing of the available options every step of the way.

If you want completely new system specifically for factories, I suggest you to properly separate production and design facilities. Design facility supply info about specific units and should be only one per factory. Production facility improves build speed, should be at least one. Assembly facility supply additional queue, should be at least one.

Then a "land factory" building is just a template that builds linked CC, design (land basic), assembly and production facilities.

i dont know if anyone has thought of this but what about ease of use for this kind of system we dont want it to be so complex that people that have never played this type of game dont know how to build up front without some sortive massive tutorial!

dont get me wrong you guys have some great ideas but we have to think about casual users not just the hardcore players.

needs to be something simple no offensive but people arent that bright and usually you need to make it easy to know what you need to do to get things to work

@pawz i would like to hear your opinion on what you would do to help people to intuitively know what to build or how you would explain how the individual buildings/modules work.

It actually depends not on tutorial, but more on presets. If just to build factory you required to build 3-4 buildings - it's too much. But if any factory could be started as single building and then expanded via internal interface (or somehow), than novice may even don't know about this options.

Or if he has all this "modules" in special engineer menu, he may just click on it (to try out) and see a green area around highlighted CnC modules/factories, which means that this module could be build only here. This will also add some links into his head. A good tooltip and few replays (I hope UberEnt guys will make replays-with-UI possible) would be more than enough to master this system.

Question is "is current system really so bad, so we need to introduce something more complex to make it better? Maybe there is more simple solution?". In answer to this question there is another proposition not to make so much modules, but just make it as some central UI for base without replacing conventional factories.

Power generator, power generator, extractor, factory.
Sorry. I guess this game is too complex for you. :roll:

My idea was that in the factory interface you'd have the extra factory modules visible, and the user would just select the module, which would make the factory UI go away and bring up the construction UI (ghost of the building, with ability to place it). So instead of picking an engineer and then picking which module you want to build, you first build the CnC, then you get hints via the factory UI on what you can build further.


I'm really tempted to go down the route of separating design modules from production modules, but I haven't come up with a good solution for the problem of making it too easy for players to switch from land to air to sea production in one factory.

What if the tech were tied to the gantries instead? The different unit types will need different gantries anyway.

Remember that you don't need to get the suggestion exactly right. If the devs take your idea they probably won't implement it exactly as suggested anyway.

What if the factories were, like, separate? So if you wanted air you built more air factories, and if you wanted sea you built sea factories?

I missed this somehow. I think I got it mixed up with the multiple bay factory topic. It's an interesting concept.

I quite like some of the ideas from the OP. I do feel however that some of the suggested features are perhaps superfluous, for example the necessity for the CNC module is questionable. The reason I say this is that for most intents and purposes (particularly if it can only produce engineers, as suggested in the OP), is that under the current system the first factory you build performs this function anyway. Any additional factories you build will either be able to build units from that list and can be set to assist the original factory, or will build units from a different list and cannot assist. In this case there is no difference between the suggestion in the OP and the current system at all.

In the system illustrated by the OP I assume all modules build simultaneously unless told otherwise and each build queue for different unit types is managed from the CNC module. Under the existing system, providing that each additional factory assists the original, the player still only has to manage one build queue for each factory type. This is exactly how it works in SupCom and aside from the attached UI suggested in the OP (which I am quite fond of) I see no benefit to this new system as it offers no additional functionality over the existing system.

So what about building placement? Are we removing that from the control of the player? What I have seen so far is that we are talking about simply clicking a button in the UI to add a module or factory. Does this remove the player decision on the location of this building and will there be a maximum distance from the CNC building to allow the new building to be controlled by the CNC hub?

If yes to manual placement, how will a player see how his buildings are connected together? Will it be any different to holding shift in SupCom to see the assist commands assigned to factories and such like?
If no to manual placement, then how will building placement of the initial factory be determined? Will the positions of the modules be fixed or will it be a grid format where any module can be built in any grid space? Will it shadow the space required for every conceivable module when placing the initial factory or will it be possible for players to build the CNC module and have a shadow showing the available grid around it? This would allow the player to position their initial factory in an informed manner based on the terrain and existing buildings. Presumably even the modular factory type would have no limit to the number of modules that the player could add. Otherwise this would be a step backwards from the existing system, where unlimited number of assists is possible.

Additionally, what if the player wishes to space out their production buildings as part of their strategy? Would the modular system allow for this?

Apart from being the physical button in the game world that brings up the UI, what is the function of the CNC building in the game? Does it provide a target that the enemy can snipe to stifle production? Would it work like taking out the lead factory in an assist command? If so, would this need to be replaced for construction to recommence, or could players simply target another building to lead the build queue like in the existing system? Also, it is impossible for the enemy to know which is the lead building in the existing system, but the CNC building, by nature, would be easily identifiable. Does this add depth or just make it an easy target for sniping?

What if I wanted to change how my factories interact? For example, say I had 5 factories producing land units. What if I wanted all 5 to build from the same queue initially. Now imagine that a situation arises that I want to use two factories to build a set of units quickly without interrupting the existing build queue.

In SupCom this is easy. I can take a factory out of the assist command and assign a new build queue to it in a matter of clicks. I have not built or changed anything other than commands. I can assign 1 or more of my remaining 3 factories (not counting the other lead factory with the original build queue) to assist this new build queue without interrupting production. In addition to this, when my one off line of units is complete, I simply reassign the factories to assist the lead factory. Will this be possible with the CNC building?

One of the things I do like that has been suggested by the OP is the UI. It does a great job of simplifying the information showing how the factory and it's subordinate modules are affecting the economy. In SupCom the player has to hunt for this information by clicking individual factories. The other thing I like is the 1 click pause function. The ability to stop all factories simultaneously is neat.

Personally I would look at what you are trying to achieve by creating this system and then use it to improve the existing system, which I feel is more flexible and player choice orientated than the modular factory suggestion.

For example:

Make it possible to see more information about factories and assisting subordinates. This could be done in a number of ways. My initial thought is to have a separate key that the player uses, like shift commands are used, to bring up information specifically relating to factories. This could include shading lead factories in one colour and it's subordinates in another. The SupCom method of yellow lines going everywhere was fine initially, but it can become confusing when there are multiple assists going on. Using the alt key could bring up this menu and allow the player to see a production related overlay.
What about also showing the resource rates on screen as opposed to in a menu? Holding the alt key could show mass and energy values hovering above factories. Putting the cursor above a lead factory could show a combined statistic for the whole assisting chain.

What about when you click on a factory? If you click a factory that is part of an assisting chain it would be nice to have the option to pause all construction in the chain or just to pause that individual factory. This is a must for economic management. It would also be neat to have a function to jump to the lead factory so that you could make changes to the build queue without having to first search for it.

In SupCom it was possible to have a factory assisting a factory assisting a factory. That could get really confusing and I think it could be improved simply by when a factory is told to assist then any of it's subordinates will automatically start assisting the lead factory instead. It stops assist chains from becoming unnecessarily complicated. There should only ever be one lead factory in a chain.


TLR. This idea has little or nothing new to add to the game apart from centralising the UI around one building (the CNC hub). IMO this isn't a bad thing, but I don't see how the existing system couldn't be improved simply by making the UI better.

Personally I think factories and unit production is long overdue a UI interface overhaul. In fact I think it deserves it's own dedicated overlay like the shift overlay. Knowledge is power and the UI needs to give more of it to the player more clearly to allow him to make better informed decisions.

Why this is a problem? CnC module just should have some radius, so you can't just build sea and dump in into far sea. But if you are at sea shore - why not?

It's also possible to join disembarkation points with assembly modules, making assembly modules typed. So you can't just switch from ultra-fast air production to ultra-fast sea production if you have 10 air assembly modules (assembly doc is hindered by it's own performance + unit exit speed) and just one sea assembly module.

I think the vote of UI improvement brought up by wolf dog is a good idea, but his delivery was a bit blunt. I think the idea presented by the OP may not be prefect but I like the UI improvement idea and the idea of having engineers be able to assist through a parking pad or similar system.

I also really enjoy the idea someone else brought up about making engineers transform into engineering stations to assist factories. I hate having my engineers block production and this would seem like a great way around at problem.

It seems to me that Über brought up that they will focus on the UI during production so they may very well jump onboard with some form of this idea, simplifying and improving display of information for factories in the UI will probably be a major concern of theirs and I hope to see ideas presented in this thread in the finished product in some form or other.

As I see it the CNC module doesn't necessarily have to be a building, it could be a UI element. So when you build a factory and assign it to a group it could creat a UI icon similar to that for selecting engineers in supcomm. So it would have a pop out window with options like what the OP posted. Show options for building additional factories, pausing producing, displaying costs, etc. whatever can be presented without cluttering up the pop-out window unnecessarily. This could include a unified build que for all of the factories in that group as well. Perhaps it would be best to have a quick pop-out menu with the most pertinent information and then once the group is selected it would modify the UI to display the unified build que and other command and control functions in detail.

One of the things i never see:


building in PA require 3 pieces of equipment:

-Space
-A Magic Greenspray Nozzle
-A blueprint.

What i don't understand is the arbitrary difference between an air and land factory (aside from the cleaner GUI).

Both need only the above 3 to build stuff. A higher tech factory adds usually an extra spray, and behind-the-scenes, probably computer power and stuff to support more spray.

Why not have a singular building for both. You have 2 main Tabs: Air and Land (no water because of placement issues). Cross production is possible. Not sure about nodular play, but i guess adding construction nodes (for higher speed) or computer nodes (for more advanced machines) works. I'd go for something like SimCity (the current one in development) does. You make a main building that does what it does; you add upgrades for greater speed or better units (or a balance). Also: it might be neat to add secific nodes for special units. (but the node thing is probably roughly what the OP suggests)

Air units are all VTOL in SupCom (1/2) anyway.

Was this meant to make it less complicated.
Seriously, what would happen if a section of it was, say, bombed or damaged in an asteroid strike or pounded with artillery or hit by a nuke or regular missile or suffered orbital bombardment or was attacked by regular units?

I imagine the section would be damaged and the factory would compensate by building / routing units elsewhere. You just wouldn't lose your entire production queue because your single factory blew up.

I'm sure I heard one of the devs say something like this in a video, like when you're zoomed out enough you can click on a base and see what's inside it, and even set up production queues from orbit? I think a system like that, of being able to group factories together and have them all help make the same thing (although done better than SC's assisting), would be easier to understand