Modular Factories

While I like this idea, I'd like to take a moment to flag down the devs and make sure they at least put in the factories-assisting-factories mechanic. Not only was it awesome for reducing factory start up, but it was also fairly useful for injecting new build orders into your queue (though there are other means to accomplish this).

Indeed, actually taking a step back would reveal that that idea and this work under similar principles.

So even if this idea isn't the best, the underlying idea could still be improved with a few additions like this, as a building or UI element.

The supcom assisting system was pretty damn good at making unit spam easy. I don't think any special unit or more in depth mechanic is going to be required. Build the factories, follow the leader, no fuss no problem at all.

I gotta go with this as well, I admit I haven't quite read thought the OP and understood it all that well, but at the same time, if I have to read a mini-essay and a huge diagram to understand the system........

Mike

Do you guys think this would work better as a UI feature?

Why not have a super cheap engineer station and then construction pads, with the CnC factory serving as a central order issuing spot and engineer production then? If you want to build something, engineers need to be staffed in the station slots. It also neatly lets you make it so you can snipe production rate on a smaller budget than it would take to kill the pads.

What was good enough for SupCom may not be good enough for PA though, where you have multiple bases across multiple worlds. Just imagine if each command unit could be given a name and then accessed at any time. It would definitely streamline things.
Need to produce like crazy on one planet but your resources are all taken up? Open the menu for a base on another planet and pause production on a few things. There's no reason to go back to the other planet now to shut everything off manually.

In FA we used Control Groups for that exact purpose.

Mike

Again, on a single map with a single base. Multiple factory types and multiple unit groups in multiple bases across multiple planets...you'll use up your control groups a lot faster.

I could be wrong I admit. Maybe it would be enough. But that doesn't make this idea any less cool.

I never kept all my factories in one base unless it was a tiny map, and each cluster of facs had it's own 'Parent' Factory, so it was pretty easy to keep in check, and Control Groups weren't(to my knowledge) as critical to use as in say SCII, depending on the size of a "standard" PA map running out of Control Groups may or may not be an issue, we just don't know yet, there could be a sidebar or planet-based CGs as an option.

Mike

That would be nice to be sure, but it also brings up the other issue with control groups...the more you have the more difficult it is to remember which is which.

I confess the majority of my RTS experience is from AoE2 and Brood War. I carried that experience over to other games and it means I tend to burn through control groups pretty fast.

An awesome thread with at least two brilliant ideas. Moreover, modular factories grouping is an appropriate implementation for first-class orders, which achieved by adding functionality to set default command module for planet. Command module is important for first-class orders implementation - it allows territorial separation of different bases, defining base as a territory covered by joint command area. Command modules form joint area eiter if they have directly intersected radiuses or if they have their radiuses intersected with joint area (just like energy overdrive grid in Zero-K). Command modules on joint area are acting as one. First-class order is issued to the default base, which is initially forms around first built command module and is changed by selecting new primary command module. For ones who want to control theri factories manually, there should be a button to disconnect factory module from modular system, thus converting it to ordinary factory.

That partially generalizes TA build system with classic C&C (TD, RA, TS) build system and reducing micro by allowing to issue unit construction orders without specifying direct executive. Moreover, if we add building construction module, that generalization becomes complete, allowing first-class orders for building construction.

This looks like a great idea, I hope they use it

Excellent concept. It points to a fully nested fractal battlefield. Not sure that PA will put it into practice, but it will be a "reality" eventually.

For instance. The Commander unit has several sub-systems: mobility, D-gun, Nanolathe, power generator, mass fab (others?). They are all connected together into a self-contained unit, but there's no reason that you couldn't seperate them, or turn individual sub-systems on and off. Or upgrade the components for that matter.

The same is true of the battlefield. PA is going one step forward by having the battlefield (the solar system) sub-divided into several sub-battlefields (planets, moons, asteroids). There's no reason this can't go further, by making individual buildings seperate "battlefields" in their own right. Or experimental units could be a battlefield for smaller units to fight on/in. Even the interior of planets, or individual planetary features (a tall mountain, a system of caves) could be treated as sub-divisions. It goes all the way down.

Any move toward this generic modular sub-division would be a step forward. The single level battlefields sub-space is a step in this direction. I'd love to see nested factories (and nested units) if they can implement it cleanly. We'll see how far they dare to dive into this potentially bottomless abyss.

Glad you guys like it

The concept would be that each module contributes nano-build-power to the whole, focused on a particular construction bay. Adding a factory module would therefore increase the build power of the entire system, and also increase the designs available to be produced (if you add a new type of factory module).

Construction and Disembarkation bays would most likely be cheap buildings that allow you to control how many production lines you're running and where the units exit the complex.

Engineer Parking Stations would allow engineers to contribute their build power by parking themselves in one spot that isn't necessarily around the factory, and becoming linked into the entire system. This allows for the regular assisting we all know and love, but removes the need for any management apart from adding or removing engineers from the platforms. This is critical because it gives the game a clear 'yes I am in this factory' signal, allowing for accurate costs & drain numbers in the factory UI.

There's some further tweaks to the idea I'm working on just to streamline the process a bit more, and hopefully I can come up with a little animation to give you an idea of what a fully functioning modular factory could look like.

Pawz, again, I love this whole thread.

Did you happen to read my suggestion on page 4 about combining factory modules with construction bays and making the CNC an optional structure? I would love to hear your response to that idea.

The reason I suggested it that way is because it provides the benefits of the modular system while making it all optional. If a player just wants to make factories they can, they're not forced to use the modules or CNC if they don't want to. But if people do choose to build the CNC then it all works exactly the way you suggested (except for the combined factory modules and construction bays).

Beside that, my key argument for combining those two is balance. If I have ten construction bays and build just one advanced factory module, suddenly I can build ten advanced units simultaneously (powering nano power from the basic factory modules). That makes the jump to Tech Level 2 a bit too easy.

Any thoughts?

Ekulio, I have indeed been thinking about your suggestions. I don't think I'd choose to go with a 'both systems could work' approach, because it generally tends to obscure both concepts. For example, if you could manage factories on their own, what would the interface be like? There would be a number of items in the standard UI that would have to be grayed out, or a whole new interface designed to make it work.

A few other points come to mind:

1. The purpose of the engineering station is to allow the factory to determine how much build power it has at its disposal. Allowing engineers to freely assist the factory anyways would kind of make that point impossible. I'm imagining a building that is 'garrisoned' (for lack of a better term) by a set number of engineers, and each engineer increases the build power available. I suggested an actual building placed by the player - if we could get it smart & orderly enough, I'd be happy to see engineers deploy little platforms under themselves and become attached to the network (no engineering station required at all). Ideally you'd want to preserve the whole 'oh look a huge cluster of engineers, lets bomb it!'
The goal is to
A) Make it easy to manage (garrison style load/unload, auto-dock when told to assist etc)
B) Physically attach the engineer to the network so they can be included in resource cost calculations.
C) Remove clutter from your base by keeping your engineers out of the way and preventing them from moving when idle

2. Factory module build power can be attributed to higher tier units - you would just have to account for this in the unit cost. In Supcom etc this is already done because regardless of how fast your factory works, it's still just a stationary engineer and the majority of the factory's build power comes from the surrounding engineers. Streamlining this would imho be beneficial because it would make it clearer that building factory modules is more efficient than engineers.

Just thought I'd address this directly. This is a matter of balance, but it is solved by assigning the higher tier a factor of increase in build time. IE, a regular unit with a regular factory module takes 10 seconds, a T2 unit in a regular factory would take 100s.

There is however the issue of unit type crossover - for example should land factory modules be allowed to work on air units?

I suspect the answer is to separate build power from the unit menu entirely. Give the player a choice - would you like mobile, less resource efficient engineers, or stationary, tougher, highly efficient engineers.

Ah, that makes sense. I didn't realize you intended it as an always present button. I assumed the interface for working with an individual factory would be the same as in Supcom, with the interface you proposed appearing when the player selected the CNC. In that case nothing would be grayed out.

That's a sensible solution. The same solution works for crossover units as well...otherwise the player doesn't have to make any tough decisions (I.E. should I do land or air?).

I'm not sure I understand that last paragraph. Care to clarify?

I love the OP's original idea! Unique, Efficient, and totally cool!