Mini-map idea

Actually, you raise some really good points. In a game where the effectiveness of micro is limited, intel is really important and without it, you've really just got a tank-spamming game.

That said, I'm still worried about coming back from watching a big battle to see a completely destroyed base and not having any idea what happened (not getting there in time is OK, but not knowing that something's happening is not) and units getting lost on the "dark side" of a planet that I'm not looking at.

But the former could be solved with alerts, and the latter is maybe solvable with a more polished strategic zoom. So you've convinced me! Congratulations.

Any time a thread contains a link or reference to XKCD that thread is automatically better. No exceptions. That alone is enough of a reason for the response.

Holy Sugarmuffins...

A debate was solved on the internet?
I'm honoured and glad to be of service.

The big assumption here is that a minimap would offer similar information as the strategic view would.
What if it were limited to ones own units that would flash when entering combat?

If a minimap were to be implemented; what information would be presented, how would it interact with webkit UI's, and would it be possible for a custom UI to abuse the information in the minimap?

Seriously?

...An open forum...
...Specifically for the General Discussion of Planet Annihilation...
...which probably includes the discussion of ideas for future mods...

And you're *constantly* trying to stop people talking about a potential feature which apparently many people are interested in having.

So whether it's in the initial game or whether it gets added by a mod later....

Please stop criticising people for talking about it.
If mini-map discussion is something you don't like, then don't read threads with the phrase "mini-map" in the title.

I'm forced to wonder if you suffered a traumatic mini-map related incident during your youth.

Personally I really like the discussions on mini-maps.
I'd like one, but I agree that coming up with something that would work well is going to be challenging.

However trying to stifle discussion about them is not a reasonable approach.

As for...

I'm sure answers vary, but the simple fact is, it's one of the most well know methods of getting intel about the rest of the map you're playing on, and people are already very comfortable with them.

Agreed there are problems with the various projections, but I'm sure a little lateral thinking could overcome these is some form or other.

Now that's some sensible lateral thinking.

I agree. I've actually been persuaded that this is a better idea than many I've seen on this, and I sincerely apologise for the dismissive tone with which I approached this initially, and for not reading the suggestion fully; thank you justanoob for not flipping your **** at me!

I do have one further gripe though - I would imagine that programming map projections from spherical entities in real time would be quite difficult and probably fairly resource-intensive.

I'm by no means an competent programmer, though, so anyone who knows a bit more about it feel free to correct me on this.

Assuming that I've composited an accurate approximation of what you meant, I wonder if you could expand on what form of more polished strategic zoom you think might help here.

Genuine question. Not trying to cause trouble

My *current* assumption is that said zoom would have to unfold to show more than one angle or a projection at it's highest zoom level. But then aren't we back to a minimap?

I'm incline to wonder along the same lines.

I personally hope that Mini-map becomes a category of mod in it's own right and that many implementations are forthcoming so that all kinds of options can be tried out

Well, I was thinking something more along the lines of semi-transparent strategic icons appearing through the planet when there's units on the other side. The drawback to that is that it might get cluttered.

But in general, the whole readability of the situation needs some work. (which is understandable, seeing as they just barely got combat working) In the livestream, the player visibly couldn't find his units a couple of times. At one point, he didn't even realize he was losing a battle until he zoomed out and there were hardly any blue strategic icons left.

So actually, it seems like the graphics need more work than the strategic zoom. Specifically, unit colors should be brighter, especially on the dark side of a planet. Hopefully they're already working on that.

rorybecker, I'll be shocked if Minimaps are implemented in the game by modders. Not I'm 100% sure that it can't be done (though I believe that it will be hard as all hell to accomplish), but more so that I think Uber will do such a good job with Strategic zoom and alerts that we won't NEED it or even want it.

Which is exactly my point.

I think Uber won't make minimaps, Jon doesn't want to waste time on something he feels is unneeded.
I think modders won't make Minimaps, because there will be no need, nor even a particularly strong desire for them, and it may have been made prohibitively difficult due to how the base engine was coded.

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This is also NOT the first person be asking for minimaps nor is he the first to present images for how this can be done. If you want you can feel free to use the search functionality to confirm that.

I've found 73 other threads that at the very least make mention of minimaps for Planetary Annihilation.

How many can you find? :roll:

I think many people feel the same way, I don't really care if it has a minimap or not. Also in FA I never used the minimap, strategic zoom just makes them pointless imo.

-_-
You are comparing the strategic zoom for a flat map to a spherical body? Not even mentioning the use of several monitors or viewports?
How in the world would 1 viewport be sufficient for planetary combat?
*grumbles...

As I said before godde, If Neutrino wants the game to have a barrier between the player and the near OMNISCIENT knowledge usually provided by a minimap... then I for one am on board.

Train is leaving the station though... and it's going one way. You on board or not?

Indeed. I'm very iffy on this issue myself, but I trust Uber to make an awesome game.

And if I find that I miss a minimap, well, we have mods for that, I'm sure.

I doubt it.

Multiple views will be in the game. That has been put forth by neutrino so I don't really think that neutrino think that the players should be forced zip around the solar planets furiously just to keep track of what's going on and that camera management should be an important skill just to stay on top of the game.
Player attention is something that is restricted and I think that the UI should be as powerful as possible to make the player able keep track of as many things at once to the players desire. Using multiple monitors and splitting up the screen in multiple views could be a powerful tool.
But I think that an unwrapped planet being displayed on just 1 view is a powerful tool in addition to seeing the planet as is.

So I just hope that Uber changes their mind and decides to make it possible to unwrap any kind of surface into any kind of shape on the screen or makes the camera able to be a "lense" in any kind of shape.
How much of a technical as well as conceptual problem this is I'm not sure of.

I can't believe you think there will be no particularly strong desire for mini-maps when you yourself have just admitted to having searched and found 73 threads mentioning them.

As some people are quite fond of pointing out, we have no way of knowing how easy or hard anything will be, given that the game has not even reached Alpha yet.

And even if it is hard to do, why would that serve as a valid reason for us to discuss the various ways in which a mini-map might work.

And it may not. Again why shouldn't we discuss it?

The last time I checked (and I'm completely willing to be wrong here) the UI plugin side of things was going to be some combination of webkit and Javascript.

I've seen implementations of Quake3 written in javascript, so I think it's not unreasonable to suppose that a minimap for a sphere will be within the bounds of possibility.

Again, your particular need for this feature is not being debated. I and many others (Those 73 threads again) seem to think you might not be in a position to speak for all of us.

My own reasoning for wanting a mini-map is so that I can see a single visual overview of a single planet. The whole of the planet. Not just the bit facing me at any given point.

I'm completely open to alternatives, but an alternative that does not fulfil the same purpose as the thing it's replacing, is not a very good alternative.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on what kind of strategic zoom would replace this need.

That's an interesting approach.

If I understand your suggestion correctly, you're talking about wrapping a camera lens around a planet.

Sort of like what you'd get if you pointed an orbiting ring of cameras back at the planet itself, pointed them all inwards and then stitched the results into a single view.

I'd be very interested to see anything like that.

rorybecker, Remind me, how many of these posters in those 73 other threads have played Planetary Annihilation's final "Gold" release version yet?

Oh, that's right. None of them.