Matchmaking / Lobby systems

It may come : http://www.faforever.com/forums/viewtop ... f=2&t=2550

Probably possible, need some LUA coding. Problem is the user interface (there is no drag&drop AFAIK). But a /swap command in the chat should work. Can come too depending on the result

Ranks are displayed. The other can be displayed in FAF. But will probably be too much informations in the lobby. But it's possible. (favorite unit would be completely useless or a gamee like FA. Will be engy for everyone).

It's working in a forum/CMS because people are not trying hard to cheat it.
There is a smurf detection in FAF, and except by linking the FAF account to something like steam, it can't be a lot better (it's an hardware lock).
And still, people can make 2 steam account and buy FA from both of them.

People who want to defeat such feature will manage to do it with more or less effort. While making a better system would take much much more effort. It's a lost race.

I'm sorry, but I it wasn't about FAF. FAF, IMO, is just last breath of dying community (for multiple reasons). And it has it's own problems, not just missing UI features and instability.

Anyway, if PA will fail (and there is a plenty of people who believe that it will), than FAF will be our last bastion until PA will be remodded to more FA-stylish gameplay, if possible. Because PA should got a lot of obvious technological advantages over FA (client-server, greater scale, improved modding). If it will not fail (i.e. it would be good replacement for FA) than FAF community will shrink even faster.

Automatic algorithm is not possible. Only thing you need is some hint for host. Also, it may help to just improve ranking system, so it will correctly estimate skill (currently smurfs are just self-distracting themselfs prior game end, so they got 0 score).

And smurfs are little problem, bigger problem is people playing same game from different sessions (from notebook and pc, for example). For that, similarity in IP is enough to ping host about possible problems. Host should make final decision, not FAF.

That doesn't mean that you should not try to battle at all. Otherwise workarounds would be so easy that anyone would be able to cheat them. With good system only few very experienced cheaters would be able.

Matchmaking should be the top priority.

Needs more bumps...

Why? The devs have probably already noticed this thread and made appropriate notes.

I haven't seen a dev responding yet and I actually want to take this topic to a higher level.

Here is the thing, we all want matchmaking and probably a lobby system, my advise would be that the developers take a good look at the system in SC2 since that is the best system I know in all the RTS games I have played.

Now lets define matchmaking a bit more, since I want to take this topic to have a bigger field of view then just the matchmaking. We are talking about the presentation of the game and the ease of use. If I want to play PA I want to play PA and not sit in a lobby room waiting for players to come and such. Ease of use is what extends the replayability of games, for example SC2, very easy to get in a game and you see that a lot of players still play. (And yes I know the pro scene is part of that aswell). This is also due the ladders/league system which is awesome in my opinion.

Now lets get to an even bigger view. Planetary Annihilation has mod support, creating mods is one thing but playing mods is a whole different thing. This is were "arcade matchmaking" comes in, basicly just the same system as SC2 is using nowadays to promote custom mods/maps to be played, it is very easy to use with very short waiting times. (Yes, I do know the system is not perfect since non popular mods are left to die)

As you can see here we got some stuff together which is creating the so called presentation of the game, matchmaking/arcade matchmaking/ladders and eventually clan support.

Feel free to discuss! ^^

1) Remember Christmas? Some people celebrate holidays.
2) If you look at the dev posts, you'd notice that their priority is on building the game skeleton first. This is a LOT of work. Just like a real skeleton, it ultimately determines a game's shape and performance, but is mostly invisible to the user.
3) A higher discussion level means presenting and discussing ideas pertaining to a topic, not just listing off potential topics.

No real chat, no community tools, no replay vault (unless it was added later), hardly the best one around

BattleNet is, in my experience, a system that lends itself well to the ladder system but I feel it is missing some key community tools like Chat and Clan Support. I still hold GPGNet as my favorite Multiplayer client, it had it's flaws(everything does) but it really connected you to the community and because it was "standalone" from the game you could have the client running and while trying to set up a game you could be looking up stuff online or downloading maps/mods or whatever.

Also, some of the antics in Halyon......oh the memories!

Mike

One big issue with Starcraft's ladder system is that it ends up being far too competitive and stressful. Games aren't just fun games anymore, and the win or loss of a single game is such a big deal that players are constantly reviewing their rank and how to improve it, rather than how they can enjoy the game to its fullest. (Consequently, this is one of the reasons there is a lot of cheesy play at the lower levels. Players are trying to "ladder up" as quickly as possible, rather than learning how to use proper strategy.)

I agree that GPGNet did a very good job on its end, especially because games are less about stress and more about fun. Zero K's system is a bit different, but also fairly decent for similar reasons.

Some people are against running the lobby as a separate program outside of the game itself, but I feel that this method encourages the community, by having players connected to the lobby even when not playing. And implementing the chat via IRC, similarly to Sins of a Solar Empire, would further encourage communication and a more social player base.

Implementing chat and matchmaking services as IRC has also a huge advantage of reusing existing well-established IRC network mechanisms. I mean, IRC servers are able to link into common network. If matchmaking service/vault/whatever is done via network-scale bot/service then you may benefit from existing linking infrastructure and tools without inventing your own. Also, it will greatly simplify custom lobby clients development and development of additional features, like statistics and so on.

But. PA is client-server. And in client-server model there is always a problem of "free slot". Therefore most of client-server games has lobby in game, as you need to "fight" for slot.

And, considering PA's supposed game duration, you probably should start gathering play-party when you got a free server, not other way around.

Though, it could be possible to implement nice queue/balancing within huge interlinked network with a lot of servers, so it may support n battles at same time.

The best system for me is FAF.
Not because I've made it, but because I've designed it with what I judge the best in mind It's easier to say "look at it" to see what I want from a lobby system.
And I've copied most of its design from TA Spring, another great example of how every lobby should be done : clear, easy and lightweight.

Separating the lobby from the game is a must for me. Being able to join the chat from IRC or whatever is great too :
When I see the amount of players on FAF that are just there for chilling (some are connected from a IRC client from work, or even on their smartphone , I highly doubt they will do that if they had to keep FA loaded and alt-tab all the time.

And that's a really great addition to make a game feel alive. I don't have that feeling at all in battle.net. The players could be bots, I wouldn't care.

So what about having a combination of the SupCom (GPGNet) with the SC2 system? Would be awesome right?

This is something I posted on War of the Overworld (Another Kickstarter heavily supporting mods)


Hello fellow PA backers!

I as many others among us want this to be the best game possible, there is an issue though with a lot of recent (RTS) games that they are not very easy to get into especially when mods are involved. Some RTS games require you to download all mods from an external website for example and others have it intergrated very nice and easily.

This is the first thing I want to start with, ease of use of mods/maps (Think Starcraft like mods).

No one wants to struggle to play a mod, so my advise is to take a good look at the SC2 system. The SC2 system has lobbies and a matchmaking system for mods called "Arcade". This is a pretty simple overview of all the popular mods and you can easily play it in seconds, no external downloads required, it's all intergrated! There is also some pretty neat rating system in place so you know what fellow gamers think of the mod/map. It is a very easy to use system with very short waiting times. (Yes, I do know the system is not perfect since non popular mods are left to die)

Video about the arcade, it even has a timestamp for the lazy people
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 0Hs#t=122s


Now we have covered the Arcade system with some form of matchmaking a bit more, we can take it to a more competitive level. I am not sure if this game is capable of being as competitive as others, but I find that stats really leave the player coming back for more, in combination with a nice matchmaking system.

Actually you can almost copy this instantly from SC2, I simpy don't know a better matchmaking/league/ladder system then Starcraft 2 has at the moment. I can go into all the details over here, and I will by providing all the readers of this forum with some links.

League/ladder system explained:

http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/League_(StarCraft_II)


I hope all of you enjoyed reading this topic, and I am looking forward to discuss this with the community!

Cheers!


Typhooni


PS: I am a bit confused with mods/customs maps, call them what you want but I really mean the same system as SC2. ^^

SCII doesn't have mods, it has custom maps.

Mike

Orangeknight, I made a PS in my post above, i find it a bit confusing ^^

Yes I saw, you weren't sure so I clarified it for you.

Mike

Hehe, thanks a lot! ^^ It's good to see the discussion going, I like to hear everyone opinions on this case and I already see some good points indeed. I really like the launcher system aswell in games like SupCom (Be in the game, without really starting it) and my wishes would go to a combination of SC2 and SupCom.

Not a lot of mentions about the arcade system yet, I am very familiar with the SC2 arcade system and played a lot of custom maps in Warcraft 3 (The custom maps are made on such a high level that they are almost comparable with mods, I think that you can even use 3DStudiomax to import new skins etc in the map editor). Warcraft 3 had it's flaws and so far I really like the SC2 system, while it has it's flaws aswell.

I hope this is a direction Uber Entertainment is looking into, since they make the game a lot more fun

This topic deserves some big bumps!

some cool info in here, FAF support for PA sounds great and I bet it would cut costs if there was some olivebranch extension from Uber to keep the community integrated

B.net 2.0 is awful though and its example should be avoided. In fact I'm convinced nobody of import at blizzard plays their games anymore. If they did they would've noticed the many glarring inconveniences and annoyances that didn't exist in their older games but now are "impossible to fix" in their newer games. SC2 lobbies - garbage, D3 battle.net - garbage. It's not as if there wasn't anything they could emulate either, the private launchers and servers the koreans made expanded on bnet 1.0 and added features that should have been expected at the outset of SC2, things like groups and clans and message mail. Instead they produced something with fewer capabilities than what ran their games in 1998. Maybe the only improvement is that I can have more than 25 friends - although there is far less sense of community now and as such that is less likely.

IMO FAF/Spring have the lobby system right - especially having a big global chat right in front, fostering community. Even the friend/rating/avatar/icon system in FAF is exceptional.

I agree, or at least i used to do.... there is now an unranked maatchmaking, making Games much less stressful.

Why i really dont like about the Starcraft II Lobby is, you can't cancel invites and it takes forever until slow connecting players are kicked; there should be a function, making a new host if the old one is afk.