Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbreaker

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

No that's a gross exaggeration. You still put your strategy into effect manually, it's not automated. If two people play a strategic game, a player still has to use strategic skill. lets say for example, units automatically target the weakest unit, or fire and die too fast to make micro redundant, now what? Is there no strategy? Not at all.

It's like Napoleon, he was commanding his troops, and the troops didn't know the bigger picture, they only knew how to fight. In other words, Napoleon knew the strategy, and the troops knew the tactics. Napoleon had awesome Macro skills, the troops were good at micro, to put it another way.

What the microers want, and confuse for 'depth' or 'complexity' is for ole Napoleon to take amphetamines, and run out to every troop and tell him what person to shoot, and where to shoot, to tell them when to duck and hide behind cover. It's bananas.

Napoleon knows his troops know what to do, he just had to focus on the macro, or to get them into the position to enable them to do their job to the best of their abilities. Not to do everything for them.

This game wants to be a Strategy game, and it's why it's going to automate things that should be automated, and when it does, it won't be sim city.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

This.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

I don't believe we even agree on similar definitions.

How you choose to execute strategy is micro, moving formations is micro.

And stop assuming that micro in a PA game is ordering individual troops and not entire formations, a game of this scale has never been about ordering around a single unit.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

Well, whatever the case, what I quoted here is true.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

Getting back on topic... I think this person has an ultimate and elegant solution to the "only 1 faction" issue...

http://forums.uberent.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=46788

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

Personally, I hated fractions when I was in grade school. I didn't even want one.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

For me multiple races is purely an aesthetic pleasure, i love in supreme commander for example, playing cybran because of their darker themes, emphasis on spider bots and their laser point defence turrets that just look ******* awesome.

Personally i can live with one faction quite happily as long as i've got some sort of colour customisation stuff

My favourite RTS feature ever is DOW's army painter, being able to set a colour scheme for my army with a 3D render of the unit in my face showing me what its going to look like is just amazing (Mods that allowed you to preview any unit in that faction in the game made this even BETTER)
Also things like metalic paints etc were pretty rad :3

Sometimes i want to rock black and red, other times i like stomping scum with my legion of gleaming white super droids.


Either way i want to smash some planets already! =]

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

The issue with picking a limited number of units is that there is literally no sci-fi lore excuse for it, and you could use every unit of your faction in TA, so there will be neckbeard rage if you can't do that in PA.

I've been playing a little AirMech recently, and having a limited unit pool is a pretty cool thing... But it isn't for PA.

Just imagine... You and your nemesis are duking it out, you've been at it for 3 hours in an FFA match, all the other players have been annihilated. The enemy commander exposes himself! Radar and scouts detect him on an undefended asteroid, you need something to destroy him! Quick! Build T2 interplanetary missiles!

Wait, where are my missiles? Oh right. In the other build. /disappoint.


I am still in favor of modular armies. A system where you can pick and choose global advantages and disadvantages that are applied to your entire army. For example, a brawly break-****-and-breath-fire type player could sacrifice any and all stealthiness for a boost to speed, armor and damage. A stealthy player could sacrifice his armor and resource income for superior radar stealth for all units, and increased speed. An air-centric commander could nerf his K-bots and tanks to buff hid airforce.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

No it's not. Get a clue.

You are completely off your rocker, i said that to prove the difference between micro and macro, strategy and tactics. You seem to think micro is some sort of wonder skill, pro tip:it's not. From watching the alpha, i can already see the death of what you call 'micro', units die too fast and move to slow for them to avoid missiles, meaning clicking back and forth and doing the micro dance gets you nothing.

As for a game of this scale..they said the same about supcom, and yet micro persisted there, why? Game design faults, pure and simple, so stop talking rubbish please.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

You have no idea what I was even talking about, and you didn't read what I said.

Not to mention you have a poor attitude.

I never said micro was a wonder skill, and you have ignored how the scale of the game changed what micro is from "units die too fast and move to slow for them to avoid missiles" and to "moving a formation of units to avoid most of the artillery fire".

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

starcraft 2 doesn't even have the best diverse factions, Broodwar has it
Broodwar has
much more units in the screen(units have lower supply required)
better defender advantage
positional play
ecc...
starcraft 2 is just the bad copy of Starcraft Broodwar, just forget it, when you talk about starcraft

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

Im a guy who enjoys supcom 2.

I think that says enough about my opinion on 'bad copys'

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

yeah but you have played both, supcom and supcom 2
most people haven't played both SC2 and BW, they do not even know, that SC2 is a sequel(a bad one, got better with HOTS though)

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

It's fun to watch starcraft 2.

Out of curiosity, are there any good replays of broodwar games that you would recommend?

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

on teamliquid, search for snipealot2 stream

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

What? I've played both, and I see significant improvements. Might just be because I'm a zerg player (oh, how I hated having to manually assign drones to work...). Terran and Protoss could be harder for all I know, but zerg definitely got a nice touch up in my eyes.

Ah, well. Slightly off topic.

Here's how I look at it, and this is probably as simple an explanation as I'm going to be able to give (Cause I think too much): The more you free up micro, the more time you will be able to devote to other, more thought-provoking tasks, such as strategy.

Well, that goes for most players. For those that have superior micro skills, I think they'll simply just have to find other ways to preoccupy their mind. And I don't think it will be difficult to find places to devote brain function to, considering the scope of what we're going to be dealing with. Managing ten bases? Yah, that's going to take brain power.

It's like,
If I spend less time managing my units, I have more time to build bases
If I spend less time micromanaging my economy, I'll have more time to spend planning my attack and unit composition and what have you

Some would call it 'dumbing down,' because it opens more players up to the ability to skillfully interact with their environment, but with the completely symmetrical factions and diverse unit selection, I think this is actually a good thing: I believe that we'll see much more innovation in what strategies are used, creating a very, very interesting metagame.

That's why I think micro should hit the curb. Not because there shouldn't be a skill ceiling, but because I think that skill ceiling (or limiting factor or whatever) should be how good of a strategy you can come up with, and how well you execute that strategy (and how much economy can you put behind this strategy). I think there's going to be plenty to do besides using active abilities in a battle or stutter-stepping those marines or burrowing those roaches at the appropriate time or blinking the right stalker out of the way. I just find new strategies to be more...exciting than that.

Re: Love your product, but only one race is a total dealbrea

if you have played BW at serious level(c+ iccup) you also know, that is much more deeper than SC2, whoever denies this, has not played BW more than a few game vs pc or UMS map