Let's Talk about Mods in Competitive Games

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by stuart98, August 29, 2015.

  1. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    just because people have access to guns doesn't mean it's ok to use them ... and someone that uses a gun is undeniably at an advantage over the other that didn't ... yea .. NOT fair
  2. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    Comparing UI mods in a game that has a specific API for it and is advertised as "build for modding" to ... murder?

    I mean wallhacks already are in a completely separate "class", but that is taking it even further :D
    tatsujb likes this.
  3. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    i could as well say someone buying a map for a " who gets there first" contest were his opponent didn't or didn't know ... this is just as unfair ...
  4. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    No I would say the person was simply more intelligent. Serious.

    I think I can describe why I don't like all these comparisons so far:
    Wallhacks, steroids, guns and other stuff are _NOT_ banned because they are "unfair to those who do not know about it". They are banned because they destroy the game that you can use them to cheat in. Or because they hurt your health or the health of others. They break stuff. They make stuff pointless.
    You can't seriously say that about any UI mods that we know of.

    Can you find any example where something is not allowed "because not everyone knows about it"?
    I think the human society as a whole generally simply reacts to that issue by saying: "Knowledge is power and your lack of it is a fair reason why you lose".
    philoscience and tatsujb like this.
  5. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    actually that's totally possible.
  6. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    Yeah and it is totally possible to work around it as long as the mod is client side.
    tatsujb likes this.
  7. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    I'm assuming he's calling in the gentleman's code here and is by now fully aware of that.
  8. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    Then why even have Uber do anything? Just tell people "don't do it"
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  9. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    Yeah that's basically what this thread has been going in a circle around of the whole time.
  10. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    it's not about knowing or not knowing
    it's about
    gun vs no gun requires less
    strength to kill the other guy
    map vs no map requieres less time for understanding orientation ...

    hotbuild 2 vs no hotbuild 2 if i would have to be explicit requires less clicks

    the conection those 3 have is they save you effort you can spend on something else were others without them can not ...



    an inteligent person may aswell just steal money than work for it ... doesn't make him any less of a butthole though, no?
    Last edited: August 31, 2015
  11. stevenrs11

    stevenrs11 Active Member

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    I mean, the real issue is that it's pretty much impossible to prevent people from using UI mods due to how the client is built.

    Policing and preventing client side mods is a nightmare that many large companies try to deal with, often at great expense and little reward.

    From a purely practical standpoint, trying to regulate what mods people use just isn't going to happen I think.

    The far better option due to above issues is to encourage people to use mods and make them as visible as possible, so using mods is as easy and expected as customizing hotkeys. Honestly, a tournament could have a list of 'recommended mods' that most people think are helpful in some way or another.

    That way you avoid issues of uneven playing fields and such.

    The only real issue left would be mods that actively damage the game itself by truly taking something out of it that should be there. Do any mods do that yet? I don't think so. Is it possible? Probably. Will it happen? Maybe. If it does, then the API hooks that allow it to work should probably be changed on Uber's side.
    cdrkf, philoscience and cola_colin like this.
  12. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I feel it is. Isn't it about people saying "for ladder play that is unfair because you can't expect new players to know about mods?"
    I say you can expect them to know and if they do not know then that missing knowledge is a fair disadvantage. One of many fair disadvantages that make up the difference between an experienced uber level player and a new player that just bought their first RTS ever.
    If you take away all of those then all games will end in a draw.

    @stevenrs11 is very right: The best way to make the perceived issue of "unfair advantage due to not knowing about some helpful mods" less of an issue is to make mods more popular and make it as clear as possible that you're expected to a) know about mods and b) know that you should at least consider learning how to use them to be a better player.
    philoscience likes this.
  13. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    the only thing i expect people to is to know how to play the game with what it provides at its core ..
    Last edited: September 1, 2015
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  14. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    what I gather from this is that I should use a gun if I want to kill a man.
  15. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    it's actually impossible to prevent UI mods in ALL games. (within the confines of one's own home)
  16. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    then you're going to be disappointed because there are a TON of noobs.
  17. maxcomander

    maxcomander Active Member

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    I'm sure it is but if they do there cheating and you can prove it you maybe get the match removed from your rank by a moderator or something, it's probably not my best idea mind, just trying to come up with solutions instead of just moaning about it. Have just tried the nuke mod, man it's so cool!

    Had another (possibly rubbish idea) Uber add's a small mod selector to ranked that only they are allowed moderate, then the community votes which mod's are allowed in and uber put's them in the game as options in ranked.
  18. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    no that's terrible because then you're only doing this unjustly to the few who didn't know about this.

    but again in my books no UI mod is an abusive one.

    that could be interesting. question is how do we convince UBER
    maxcomander likes this.
  19. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    as long as they don't think mods make them better than actual practise then it's ok ... the percentage of realy good players of a multiplayercommunity is always comparibly low ..
  20. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    I think the balance between how easy it is to expect everyone to know about all these mods and how easy it is to actually find out when you don't know anything as a new player isn't right. The new person doesn't know that mods give the advantages it gives and the standart game won't inform about them.
    elodea likes this.

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