Let's have a mature discussion about the Sniper and Balance.

^ this very sentence means that despite everything you've said you actually think that sniper is unbalanced. If you are forced to coordinate your entire team to keep 1 class in check there is a balance issue.

I would like to reiterate, that I took care of 3 at the same time pretty much alone, with its good-matchup-class, the gunner.

The team was very glad I did too. They poured in with their juice after I made the snipers constantly hafta duck (killed 2 during the process of suppression too, the good one and 1 of the okay ones).

More people will be able to, once the sniper get's a nerf. Maybe it could just be reload speed, to stop the bodyshot spam and make them need to conserve ammo. 2x reload speed would be an incentive to use the clip sparcingly. Just add that to the list.

Cool, while we're adding personal anecdotes I would like to say I kept an entire team in spawn today as a sniper by constantly being able to juice because I earn so much money shooting bots from the safety of my spawn which is practically impossible to stop.

About six in a row with a few more with slight pauses between to earn a measly sum to purchase more, easily done because of my bot fragging ability and natural ability to earn juice.

Didn't even need to shoot people in the head, which of course I could do as well.

30-1 (The one death was from another sniper LOL) and a crushing overall.

Thanks SMG.

Oh, are we ignoring his ability to earn juice in ridiculous safety at an extremely fast rate while having a secondary that can kill a tank in a clip while juiced?

My bad, carry on.

It was addressed in a xbox update, a long time ago.

It could use another nerf. It isn't practically useful anyway. All you can do with it is run through an area and kill a few pros, and hope that one isn't smart enough to try to counter juice you (read my signature's guide). You can not turret kill with it, and don't have a high health, like every other class (the assassin is also easy to kill juiced, but she can kill turrets).

Also played tank today, knocked 3 people (2 assaults) off the map in 1 lvl3charge. BTW, if you're an assault, and you troll people for kills and rushdown every low-health enemy, learn NOT to turn a corner at a tank. I killed 6 assaults that game by turning a corner, they follow, I point-blank charge-deathblossom-prodnade all at the same time, then they die with gold armor. Pathetic.

Did you really just trivialize the ability to after a certain point in time, related to how many bots have been put out, to hold a team in spawn for the rest of the game doing nothing except dieing, by yourself?

I see.

I did. If there is a sniper outside our base with the juice, I would either switch to assassin and sneak out to simply kill bots, juice their base, take down turrets, win the game, since my k/d doesn't earn any points torwards victory... or I would go overhealed gunner deploy and shread him in 4 seconds. He has less health than gold armor tank.

Not when he has gold armour.
There's also my five team mates free.
While your five team mates are highly saddened by this turn of events.

300+100=400

700+200+100=1000

Given juice, a sniper can not survive a headshot (ironically). Given silver armor and passives, a tank can barely survive a headshot. Making him 75+ more health than a sniper.

Sniper ruins most people's games. Nerf him. I can kill him now, I will kill him in the future, I don't mind either way.

Good games tonight, goodnight all you.

BAL_SNIPER_HEALTH=300
BAL_END_ARMOR_3=300

300+300 = 600

I read that wrong, I meant in general his health while juiced with gold armour means he isn't flimsy.

I don't think I have ever been fragged by a gunner while juiced as a sniper because I target them first.

Headshot does 225x5 = 1125
Sniper with gold armor + juiced damage reduction has an effective health of (300+300)/0.33 = 1818

Which is one of the reasons I think juice needs tweaking.

EDIT: I lied you can see through the glass walls on GIII

Still, how much of an inconvenience would this be on a good Sniper? If they are getting mortared, they move. There are plenty of Sniper locations on GIII

Okay, so after having gone on MNC and playing sniper, I honestly had some good fun. I was 2nd on the team on Spunky Cola, which is quite small. 2nd game, went 25 and 7. As soon as I got out of spawn I went towards the bots, shot their eye parts, and soon enough I had Passive 3 and boy I went on a ball. I got so much money from just spamming on the bots, since I was running Gold RoF, Silver Criticals (I misclicked on my endorsements xD) and Bronze Reload. I can honestly say that the class is too effective.

You doing well a few games does NOT make any argument you make valid.

Ah, the glass cannon build. My favorite build against classes that take some time to score a kill. Put out more damage than you take, and you don't need armor.

On the other hand, a triple mortar OHKO you. I would OHKO you 3 times if you were the sniper I harassed on grenade arena. I did OHKO one okay sniper on spunky with mortars over a wall.

He could use a nerf for the high end level. Make it reload speed, or aiming ease (recoil, sway, scope zoom slower), or just reduce headshot damage to 2x and make an award for headshots reguardless of getting a kill. I liked that idea a lot. Still get headshots, just not OHKO on a lot of classes anymore, like assassination. Who else liked this idea a lot.

I would say that lowering headshot damage and getting a reward regardless if the headshot killed or not is a pretty good nerf.

Either way, the nerf needs to affect overall cap. If it's damage of headshots and bodyshots, he probably needs an extra bullet per clip. If it's rate, he will need more damage. Reload speed would be good on it's own.

I'm clearly speaking about the individual skill ceiling. When I mention the max possible kills, I speak about results one can reach with his class. You can only lunge+grapple as many times as cooldown allows. You can headshot at best a second from seeing a head on a stick.

When you drive a car you have a reaction time to break upon seeing an obstacle which is for a normal human being about 0.5 sec to 2 sec. It is independent from how other people drive, its your reaction time. If you have less idiots, you have less accidents.

Well, it is the same here. If there is less noobs, there will be less headshots, BUT the ones that are done, are based on a skill that cannot be improved anymore by quite a few guys >>> you cannot headshot faster than what some people ALREADY DO. See ? THIS IS THE NOT FUN FACTOR we talk about. It's too easy for too many already. Its at that level that things should be adjusted.

I was bringing my beta experience to justify why I allow myself an opinion. I have a time distance which I judge necessary to do so. I'm not among the best of the best. Rather well trained average one.

If a class can be picked up and can top the scoreboards in the person's first game, with relative ease, is that not overpowered?

Your very statement proves that you a) ignored the context b) didn't understand it and c) accused me of thinking something which isn't the case. Holy cow, batman that's 3 strikes in one statement.

1 Assault takes on the role of dedicated sniper cover. A reduction of terms leaving you with 5 players on each side open for other roles. That is what coordination is, one player saying "alright I'll do this", then the sin comes "I'll take the bots" etc.

A continuous reduction of terms until there is but one thing left: Teamwork and raw unadultared skill. The better team wins, stick to your role and do it well and suddenly you won't have any practical balance issues.

@Sigmars
Quickscoping as a skill doesn't have much of a ceiling really, either you can do it or you can't and it helps. The driving factors for good Snipers are more about decision-making and positioning but that's a point I simply won't touch due to people even misinterpreting the simplest of statements.