Let's have a mature discussion about the Sniper and Balance.

Ranging grenades from Assault is quite hard. The only way to reasonably do it is to find exact spots where you can shoot the various hangouts from.

For any spot a sniper picks, I have only a few locations that are ranged properly to actually do damage, and I have to know them pretty exactly. Sniper moves 4 feet and now my new spot may not exist.

It is quite a bit more possible when you are above the sniper, however the best sniper locations are already elevated meaning your only hope is an airburst or perhaps a very lucky bounce off some wall.

I have to hit 4 on a Silver/Gold armor, he has to hit once.

Thus completes all the options available to sniper killing when they aren't doing dumb things like running around in the middle of bots. Because we all know that planning around the other team being awful is a successful strategy.

Goose, let's play together sometime. The sniper has huge trouble against any team playing objective. If both teams are playing CoD, then the sniper will be OP. Since the sniper can kind-of push bots (and has a harder time focusing on pros, since he must use 4 shots on a bot wave and have few left for enemies), and can't kill turrets, you and me could beat them with a support-tank. I'll even let you be the tank.

I almost ranted because the LAST thing we need is another sniper thread, but against unorganized uncooperative teams, a sniper will dominate. Nerfing him because of that makes him useless once people actually learn to play on pc, as he will not have a use against a team that heals up. The only thing he can reliably do for his team right now is pressure the enemy to cover less area, nothing else he does is useful and he requires an actual team to do the rest.

I really do bet you just needed a competent support or an assault main. There are already thousands of sniper-nerf threads already, I guess this one is probably the most useful one. But I really was almost going to post here for a mod to lock it and post a link to the other threads (which is what honestly needs to start happening, and what I would do as a mod)

Don't make the sniper suck

just remove him from the game, everyone will be happy!

snipers will realize that other classes are far more interesting to play!

I actually must agree, sniper mains need to learn to play another class now and then

I am speaking to you, SIGMAR and grimbar (one is caps, the other is lowercase... go figure)

Still, I think the sniper keeps overhealed heavies from being too big a threat. Hell, I probably would do amazing as a heavy solo if the sniper got effectively removed.

I can play all other classes Bro, don't tase me

I wish we would play sometime. I'd play support for you if you would play something else. Maybe if they break the sniper, you could join a 3 gunner 2 support 1 tank clan with me. Nobody could beat us post-sniper-nerf.

How many times has this OD played a Sniper that can quickscope him from anywhere in the map with startling accuracy?

How often is he required to put his head in open space to carry out this strategy?

Let's face it, grimbar is right. Snipers have no luck killing bots OR pros when getting harassed by grenades. As a assault, I could probably make grimbar have trouble trying to help his team. Either grenade him so he has to hide behind cover 2/3 of the game, or bomb-jump perch to perch and charge him upon landing.

Hey grimbar, do you think you could even bodyshot an assault flying at the speed of bombjump across to you?

The speed of a bomb-jump is a bit of a stretch on my sensitivity, so I'd say 1/3 times (pulling random numbers is fun).

Pro assaults bombjump above sniper so they can't even target them!

...and then drop a bomb fresh off of cooldown behind the sniper, tossing him out to swim :lol:

The question I have now is, why do you guys continue to make the Sniper's job bot control? I really don't understand this, Tanks and Assassins do this much better. The fact that the Sniper doesn't need to do anything but kill pros on a team that is already covering bots means that all complaints should be directed at his ability to do so. I may be incorrect here but you make it seem like the Sniper eliminates the Tank's and Sin's job which is another issue entirely.

And Bro, you need to understand, I am not just some scrub who finds Snipers to break this game. The other posts here seem MUCH more radical than my point of view. I just feel that Snipers counter way too many classes and can do it very safely. If anything the number of logical arguments here helped me to assure my opinions.

And I am not quite sure what you are implying Bro, I did not intend for this thread to be like all the other rants on Snipers. I don't hate Snipers, I just feel like they put too much pressure on the game without having any direct counter. Every other class has to work hard to get their job done. The Sniper really doesn't and I feel like that is a HUGE issue. Also linking to other Sniper threads probably wouldn't do much good seeing as how this forum is designed to discuss this game. The only way for an issue that you want to get noticed is to bring it to attention more. The more Sniper complaint threads there are, the more likely its going to get fixed. And it has come to my conclusion after reading both the responses for and against nerfs, that Sniper does need some fixes.

I used to play Sniper a LOT when the game first came out. I have to agree, sniper outclasses almost everything. Assassin's couldn't touch me, I had traps all around me. Assault's would just shoot there grenades and id easily avoid them, if they came close a nice lvl 3 mortar strike will get them away. Tanks and Gunners I would run at because there such an easy kill. Support... well, I rarely dealt with them and when I did, it was always me shooting there turret just to get it out of the way.

The only way to beat a good sniper is to avoid him.

I now play mostly tank, it's my favorite class, and the only class I won't go face to face with is the sniper. Support bothering me? No biggie, i'll just hit him with a product grenade, light him up, the charge to ko him. Gunner shooting me, again, no biggie. I just weave my way through the map behind walls and glass to get close to him, light him up and charge, he gets stunned, keeping hitting him with your jet gun and theres no way he kills you. Sin's can't do anything, my health is to high, assaults can get me off them by charging and hitting me away, maybe kill me by shooting me after that, but they usually don't. Snipers... there a whole other deal, if I run at one, headshot, i'm dead. If I sneak up behind them, hit a trap, they turn around, headshot i'm done. If they don't feel there accurate enough to shoot me when I get close, they throw some mortar and a trap and run hoping i'll follow and get caught in their trap, free headshot.

The only thing I can think of to solve the sniper is to make headshots take 1.5 sniper bullets. I say 1.5 because that means if they head shot you with 1 full bullet then put a few rounds in your head with the machine pistol they would kill you. This also means that for any class, if your already damaged, the sniper will most likely still get that 1 shot ko. This way the snipers not to underpowered and can still easily dispatch of most foes.

You know, this arguement is really gotten out of hand. Which is why I will not comment on it directly anymore, either nerfs or game balance.

(at this point, I hope microsoft DOES give the devs a hard time updating now, so the sniper nerfs among other stuff NEVER reach the console)

O well, 15 dollars for unused steam game, not the worse thing that ever happened to me. At least I got free game-related files and such. And something to make mods for, should the development tools come out soon.

I think what I am going to do... Is try an indirect arguement, in a different thread.

What an absolute pile of bullshit, your suggesting that as long as all the noobs who got beat down cry loud enough that uber will base their nerfs and buffs solely on that?

I know, lets get all the snipers together and start to spam threads about how OP the assault is and maybe we can get that nerfed as well? Then i think after that the tanks jetgun definately needs looking at.

That is not what I meant. My point is, if there is a problem people are going to voice their opinion. And their opinion SHOULD mean something. And hopefully Uber does give it consideration. The problem with complaints is, you need to weed out the ones with good arguments from those without. And i'm sure Uber has the ability to do that.

If only Uber had the power to give all the "Sniper is OP! OMG YOU GUYS HE IS OP!" a brain, I'd be content for the rest of my life.

The problem is, we already had a thread near enough 50 pages long, there were balanced arguements from both sides, it was a proper discussion and i actually really enjoyed posting in that thread, it felt like we were actually debating something.

But now what?

A flood of QQ nerf sniper threads, the good snipers who posted originally are starting to lose interest, i know i certainly am, so how long before 'both sides of the arguement' become just 1 wailing whineing bitching noise about snipers from those players who got beaten by better players and blame it on the class so their ego's dont have to suffer?

What do Uber listen to then? The fact is this topic has already been discussed, it should at all times be kept to a single thread, all other threads about snipers should be locked with a link to the main thread and perhaps we may be able to discuss things properly.


The fact is, this forum no longer contains a discussion about a class, it contains a group of players who are simply jumping on the bandwagon and hoping if they shout loud enough uber will have no choice but to agree, fold and nerf the sniper, and where do we go from there? Will assaults really be next on the chopping block? Will the tears about the bomb start to flow until the forums are filled with nothing but bollocks spam about how OP and mean the assault is, will Uber be forced to fold over and over based purely on the noise the forums can make?

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This one is for the snipers. You should have actually followed up on your plan Uncle, because I sure did.

Here's the wake up call though: That's never gonna happen. In any game. Ever.

There'll always be people better than other people, and people who suck so criminally bad that it's downright embarrassing. It doesn't matter what's in a game, there will always be people who rage over it because they suck, and because it's easier to rage, cry and complain than it is to learn how to deal with things you don't know. It's far more comfortable to blame the game designers for poor balance than to accept that you're now staring at that respawn screen because you, and no one else, screwed up.

You could remove the Sniper class entirely today, and tomorrow another trend of posting would start saying the next thing in line that kills them is OP.