Let's have a mature discussion about the Sniper and Balance.

How very superior of you.
Congratulations on your extremely helpful nature.

So finally, after a month of about 100 pages of posts and simultaneous 10 threads in different sub-forums, we can finally try to speak about a potential fix.

That means, we are no longer arguing if the Sniper is unbalanced or not, right ? We all agree ? huh ?

You know our argument has always ended with "there is no easy fix because he's fine" but hey I already solved your problem ages ago by telling you to play on servers with a sniper limit of 0.

Edit: I mean the fact that out of the people who actually play this game in teams there is hardly anyone that says "sniper is overpowered" (mikey doesn't count because he disrespected people) is a very striking one.

Sure pub is a different beast but toning him down on pub will ultimately gimp him in those organised games and that is a stance I cannot tolerate. If there is no "easy fix" because he's just fine - merely not fun for random pubbers - then the best solution (and a rather economic one) for you is to play on servers without snipers.

Judged by your tone you don't seem to like Snipers anyway.

And to those who have this "problem" who do not have such options at a reasonable ping your solution was?

Host a server with a 0 sniper limit.

Lol nah i kid, but really ping isnt an issue in this game, as you may be aware i main sniper (who wouldve guessed ) and sniper is probably, certainly in the aiming department, one of the classes that lag and ping is gonna hurt the most and i can play on 200+ ping servers and whilst it isnt super awesome perfect it is very playable and you really dont notice it all that much.

Because they exist, and have people in them, right? (Tactical Immaturity Inbound, Turn The Key) When you hurr I durr.

You again?
Here, i'll play your asinine game.

With a data cap that when reached pushes you down to 128kb speeds?
Won't sorry.

Feel free to create a community around those, hosting doesn't really cost much money. I mean all the other server hosts have the option to disable him as well, haven't done so mostly though.

Clearly if you had any stance you'd have no problem getting your playerbase that agrees with you.

True enough, get a server up and running from a server hoster and stick up an advert on the forums, im sure nobody would mind and you should be able to build up a decent community, any server that advertises, no snipers or not can get a decent community of regulars and that is often way more fun than just pub stomping.


Does this game offer VIP slots on servers yet? because im sure when they come around it will make things 100 times easier.

Bwahahaha, Jesus Christ that's a lot of wank to contain in one sentence.

Oh yea your response makes sense there?

You have maintained throughout these threads that a huge part of the community and playerbase despise snipers and want them removed from the game or at the very least smacked upside the head with the nerfstick.

So is it really such a massive step to gather those haters into a server with no snipers allowed?

I don't know how to break it down to you, so simply put, this sentence doesn't make sense.

There is no easy fix implies that something may need fixing, but its not easy to do. Otherwise I would say "there is no need for a fix". Or am I getting crazy ?

What it means is, there is no easy fix because there is nothing majorly overpowered with the class.

For example:

A sniper who can OHKO any body with a bodyshot, that would be overpowered, its very very obvious, the fix is very blatant, make it only headshots, sorted.


However, nobody here has managed to pinpoint a complaint, through these recent threads weve heard that sniper is op cause of headshots, hes op because of quick scoping, hes op because he has an uzi, hes op because he has defensive skills (which were then seperated and discussed each as being very OP), hes op because glass is seethrough, hes op because hes mobile, hes op because he can kill bots.

The list goes on and on and on, the fact is, all of these 'OP' calls come down fairly heavily on the circumstances and the players skill, there is no 1 defining feature in the sniper you can say "THIS IS GAME BREAKING, CHANGE NOW".

If you'd have followed any of this you'd be able to gather by now that generally the team-players say he is fine and the pubbers say he isn't.

That dictates that there is no easy fix to that problem, not that the Sniper itself is a problem.

Getting a universal solution to this rift is a problem. The suggestion of us has been "play coordinated" to which people reply "nu-uh not fun", I tell you what isn't fun: when a bunch of random people playing random and chaotic games try to tell people who play in an organised fashion that they magically know better what's good for this class.

He poses no supreme issue in an organised environment, no need for a fix. He poses an issue indeed, but not more so than any other enemy on the battlefield; and you deal with them in an appropriate fashion (harass, deter or kill)

And as we also pointed out numerous times by now: those very methods work on a pub too, but sorry I forgot "ain't no fun".

Actually, I have only maintained his one shot kill mechanic is broken in the game enviroment created by the devs exacerbated by the move to a platform with a more precise control scheme, please don't put words in my mouth cheers, it's a truly pathetic way of trying to discredit.

And yes it is, it won't be when the competitive ladders start appearing as there will be a central area to contact players.

Which has not occurred yet, also your solution of all or nothing is not to my tastes and does not agree with my opinion.

I want to play with snipers, just ones that don't one shot kill in maps with massive LOS with every other "Pro" relying on mechanics that engage other players as opposed to not.

I get the team vs pub thing. You defend your steak. But, if anything, pub is the vast majority of games, you cannot help it. So to suit 5% you cannot leave 95% to live with unbalance. The truth lies in the middle, i'm sure the devs can change some mechanics of that class without gimping him for competitive play.

Sorry i forgot to add into my post, you cannot pinpoint an issue with the sniper that can be fixed without making him 100% unviable for anything but sitting in the spawn shooting at bots.

You take away his headshots you dont leave a balanced class, you leave a severely underpowered class.

Your suggested stun fix got shot down by the anti-sniper side of this debate! It was hardly a well thought through addition/change to the class.


On a side note, i believe there is already Comp play taking place, i know there have been several scrims and i think a league has started up.


Edit: Im also loving the idea of the wet paper towel known as the sniper 'engaging' with the other pros in combat! That will probably go real well -_-

That bunch of random people is the majority. Everyone has paid the same and deserves respect while having fun. Although I don't have a problem with copetitive play, you seem to despise pubs, making yourself, yet again, sound superior. Percentage wise, you just cannot imagine, how many people don't care about competitive play. You live in your little bubble and the world spins around.

Thank you.

Competitive players seem to forget that most of the players are pubbers, and therefore balancing a game on them is the more sensible move.

There is just 1 problem with your suggestion.

Its IMPOSSIBLE to balance public play, the skill levels are so varied, the team setups are so random, how can you possibly suggest that a pubber who runs into every icetrap without even trying to walk around it has the right to then come crying that icetraps are overpowered?

Nerfs, buffs to everything, from bots to turrets to players needs to be done based around a controlled enviroment, and competative play is the closest thing you will get to that.


And how many snipers do you see actually taking control of the whole map? Im not trying to brag here but other than myself, grimbar and caliostro i have not seen a sniper even nearly capable of achieving that level of gameplay, yet you guys post as if your every single game you are surrounded by snipers who instagib you everytime you respawn.

Now that could very well be because as said before, sniper counters sniper and my very presence stops this from happening, but even then sniper is still a rare class to see being chosen by pubbers, because the skill floor is higher than the other classes.

What im asking is, how many games, honestly, do you play each day where a sniper single handedly pins your team down and wins the game, where there is nothing you can do?

I am right now actively searching for good snipers for my clan so its not as if im not going to notice these guys.


And even then is it really okay to balance a class around the select few who can land consistantish headshots? so a few players can really kick *** at a class, does those players skill make that class overpowered?

Or is it only overpowered because of our skill, in which case how would you suggest nerfing the class in such a way that the good players become balanced and the bad to average players do not become underpowered and driven away?