Legion Expansion [Released!]

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by Nicb1, May 3, 2016.

  1. tunsel11

    tunsel11 Post Master General

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    Thats Strange i mean they have the Same national language Like germany Just with dialect
  2. tunsel11

    tunsel11 Post Master General

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    Its like saying we need a scotish(?) Version.
  3. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    You mean gaelic. And PA already has other dialects, such as English (US).
    tunsel11 likes this.
  4. tunsel11

    tunsel11 Post Master General

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    [​IMG]
    as you can see its means "verwerfen" in both languages.
    delete = löschen
    yep gaelic was the word.
  5. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Google Translate is not an authoritative translation source and is not a substitute for professional translation services.
  6. tunsel11

    tunsel11 Post Master General

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    next time i will do it like you without a source ;)
  7. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 1.3 - 2018/03/15

    General
    • Maul, Earthshaker and Necromancer move to 10% of their range when attacking
    • Thor will move to bring its multilaser into range when attacking
    • AI no longer builds the Necromancer
    Translations

    For languages which use the Latin alphabet we are not including unit name translations at this time so as to avoid confusion when referring to units across languages. This was done on the advice of a number of our bilingual players.

    We can't include translations for client components like the lobby pop-up at this time due to client mod translations breaking vanilla translations. We have put the necessary frameworks in place for the future though.

    Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far!

    Translations added:
    • en-US, English (US)
    • ko, Korean
    • nl, Dutch
    Balance
    • Land
      • Scorpion
        • Damage reduced from 750 to 500
    • Titans
      • Odin buff
        • Main cannon can now shoot at units on the sea floor
    • Orbital
      • Spectre correction
        • Cost decreased from 300 to 200
        • Vision lost only once energy efficiency drops below 90% instead of 100%
    andreasgg likes this.
  8. DeathByDenim

    DeathByDenim Post Master General

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    I noticed that in the vanilla translation often (but not always?) the format "Translation (Original)" is used. For example, "Mier (Ant)" in Dutch. Of course, that doubles the length of the translation, but it might be a good way to do it maybe.
  9. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    That scorpion nerf is pretty crazy.
    Leveller 600 dps compared to scorpions 200?
  10. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    33% loss of damage to Leveler's 33% cost increase. What has been found is that the Scorpion does a lot more damage than it seems like it should because of its splash.

    Andreas will be keeping on eye on how that change does out in the wild.
  11. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    I think Clopse raises a good point, it seems like quite a bit of a decrease in dmg at first glance. Corresponding x% changes between different unit stats doesn't always produce as close an approximation as we might think. A few different things to think about.

    Assuming pre-existing equilibrium between two units (Unit A/Unit B), we can set our goal at maintaining said parity in isolation. As such, we would look at metrics like metal adjusted time to kill. It's not the bible because no two units are perfect substitutes/counterparts, and no two units interact only with each other. I remember intentionally tweaking scorpions not to be cost effective against levellers, and iirc andreas further increased scorpion cost ineffectiveness against levellers with a rof decrease.

    You may also have to look at tweaking deathmark/panzer/enforcer/monstrosity as well in response to leveller cost increase. So much of legion was balanced around leveller because leveller was so strong. That said, gotta start somewhere and a close approximation using time to kill is better than nothing.

    (Scorpion HP)/(Leveller dmg)*(Leveller rof), rounded up by (Leveller rof) gives 3 seconds. Scorpion's time to kill a Leveller on the other hand is 5 seconds. Adjust that 3 : 5 ratio by the metal cost ratio 6:8, (3/8) : (5/6)and we get 0.375 : 0.833 = 2.2 in favour of Levellers. With simple algebra, if we do Scorp dmg=500 and leveller cost=800, that ratio increases from 2.2 to 2.5 in favour of levellers.

    If we think Scorpion was not previously in equilibrium balance, we could find justification for the carried scorpion nerf against leveller of ~10-15%. I can't judge whether that's reasonable or not, up to people who know better than I do. Though it's certainly better than the approximate ~25% buff against leveller if you do nothing (Leveller cost=800, ratio goes from 2.2 to 1.66)

    Possible solutions off the top of my head
    • Scorpion dmg=500, scorpion rof from 0.4 to 0.6 (maintains 2.2 ratio). A lot of side effects. If you do this, you'd want to decrease aoe effects. Probably not the best.
    • Scorpion dmg=500, scorpion cost from 800 to 700 (2.18 ratio). This also gives you room to adjust scorpion hp from 1650 anywhere down to 1201 to compensate for side effects on it's interactions with other units (slammer/enforcer). Probably the best solution that i'd recommend.

    Beware side effects. For example, decreasing scorpion dmg to 500 reduces it's effectiveness against monstrosities by 50% (time to kill monstrosity goes from 20 to 30 seconds).
    Last edited: March 16, 2018
    stuart98, Clopse, Nicb1 and 2 others like this.
  12. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    The Legion Expansion translation project has moved over to Loco. If you're interested in helping translate this mod to one of the PA supported languages then please drop me a line.
  13. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Not knocking elodeas amazing insight into balance but I'm more arguing about the feel of the game/units. Currently I'm way behind the curve, but I have a decent feel for what is strong or not. Scorpions were strong . 33% dps strong? No.

    Reason being, this game is lost in the early stages. Not only has vanilla better raiding, quicker expanding etc, they win the early air battles giving carefree expansion.The reason legion is behind vanilla is the air balance, work here. And by air balance I mean T1 fighter balance. . Put 30 v 30 fighters in top players hands and see If legion ever win.

    Basically legion isn't winning any tournaments or showing a crazy op unit. Buff /nerf when it's apparent, not because that's what vanilla did so we need to counter balance. What's wrong with the scorpion being vanillas locust. To me it was fun, T1 Legion is well behind the curve but t2 is likely better.
    Quitch likes this.
  14. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    Scorp vs levelrs. A simple sandbox test with heado attack shows these results: 10 v 10. 2 Levelers are left standing. one of which has 1/2 health left. The units are pretty euqal with each other but given how scorps are infinitely better against any other units, i tend to think that they are a much better unit overall. Levelers can be better at killing buildings though.

    I think panzers are kinda sorta imba. They deal insane alpha strikes vs land, will shoot down air at great ranges and are immune to tactical missile defense + are amphib.

    Regarding MLA vs Legion balance, i think MLA is maaaybe better in 1v1 games because they have cheaper metal extractors and have better fighters. Legion is better in FFA and or team vs team. They can have insane land blobs of doom with panzers which will probaly beat even leveler blobs easy.
    Last edited: March 26, 2018
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  15. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 1.3.1 - 2018-03-26

    Translations
    • Expanded to cover lobby chat messages
    • Added French (fr) and German (de) for lobby only, pending further unit description translations
    • Commander names are no longer translated so as to resolve them being displayed incorrectly in the lobby
    • Unit names are no longer translated in any language to ensure consistency of communication
  16. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    Boom bots need a fix:


    They need to walk a bit closer to their opponent when not controlled? Otherwise they do not leap.

    Similarly the legion robot titan needs to walk a small bit closer when issued an attack order. Otherwise it doesnt use its laser on a stationary unit.
  17. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 1.3.2 - 2018-04-08

    Fixes

    • Infiltrator can now move between planets per its description
    • AI checks it can afford the build and running costs of the Infiltrator before building it
  18. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 1.4.0 - 2018-05-21

    Translations
    • Setup Legion unit names to allow translation by third party mods
    • Added Chinese (Traditional) with thanks to IPWIW
    Fixes
    • All Legion Commander descriptions now consistent in their format
    stuart98 likes this.
  19. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    Here is an inconsistency of Legion and Titans which I would like to see fixed.

    The MLA titans have Greek names. Zeus, Ares, Helios.
    The Legion titans have Norse names. Thor, Odin, Tyr.

    But the MLA titan building has a Norse name (Ragnarok).
    And the Legion titan building has a Greek name (Holocene).

    So, for the sake of consistency, the last two names should be switched. I am definitely switching them in my mod of Legion, and I recommend that they be switched in base Legion too.

    And while you are at it, I would change the Greek name to Apocalypse, because it's more appropriate (what with the Apocalypse being the Greek version of Ragnarok).
  20. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    Oh but you said you don't want to touch base Titans units...

    In that case your inconsistency merely reflects Uber's inconsistency... and is thus consistent with Titans at least, if not with the cultures concerned.
    Last edited: May 23, 2018

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