Legion Expansion [Released!]

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by Nicb1, May 3, 2016.

  1. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

    Messages:
    1,696
    Likes Received:
    3,048
    I think Clopse raises a good point, it seems like quite a bit of a decrease in dmg at first glance. Corresponding x% changes between different unit stats doesn't always produce as close an approximation as we might think. A few different things to think about.

    Assuming pre-existing equilibrium between two units (Unit A/Unit B), we can set our goal at maintaining said parity in isolation. As such, we would look at metrics like metal adjusted time to kill. It's not the bible because no two units are perfect substitutes/counterparts, and no two units interact only with each other. I remember intentionally tweaking scorpions not to be cost effective against levellers, and iirc andreas further increased scorpion cost ineffectiveness against levellers with a rof decrease.

    You may also have to look at tweaking deathmark/panzer/enforcer/monstrosity as well in response to leveller cost increase. So much of legion was balanced around leveller because leveller was so strong. That said, gotta start somewhere and a close approximation using time to kill is better than nothing.

    (Scorpion HP)/(Leveller dmg)*(Leveller rof), rounded up by (Leveller rof) gives 3 seconds. Scorpion's time to kill a Leveller on the other hand is 5 seconds. Adjust that 3 : 5 ratio by the metal cost ratio 6:8, (3/8) : (5/6)and we get 0.375 : 0.833 = 2.2 in favour of Levellers. With simple algebra, if we do Scorp dmg=500 and leveller cost=800, that ratio increases from 2.2 to 2.5 in favour of levellers.

    If we think Scorpion was not previously in equilibrium balance, we could find justification for the carried scorpion nerf against leveller of ~10-15%. I can't judge whether that's reasonable or not, up to people who know better than I do. Though it's certainly better than the approximate ~25% buff against leveller if you do nothing (Leveller cost=800, ratio goes from 2.2 to 1.66)

    Possible solutions off the top of my head
    • Scorpion dmg=500, scorpion rof from 0.4 to 0.6 (maintains 2.2 ratio). A lot of side effects. If you do this, you'd want to decrease aoe effects. Probably not the best.
    • Scorpion dmg=500, scorpion cost from 800 to 700 (2.18 ratio). This also gives you room to adjust scorpion hp from 1650 anywhere down to 1201 to compensate for side effects on it's interactions with other units (slammer/enforcer). Probably the best solution that i'd recommend.

    Beware side effects. For example, decreasing scorpion dmg to 500 reduces it's effectiveness against monstrosities by 50% (time to kill monstrosity goes from 20 to 30 seconds).
    Last edited: March 16, 2018
    stuart98, Clopse, Nicb1 and 2 others like this.
  2. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    The Legion Expansion translation project has moved over to Loco. If you're interested in helping translate this mod to one of the PA supported languages then please drop me a line.
  3. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Not knocking elodeas amazing insight into balance but I'm more arguing about the feel of the game/units. Currently I'm way behind the curve, but I have a decent feel for what is strong or not. Scorpions were strong . 33% dps strong? No.

    Reason being, this game is lost in the early stages. Not only has vanilla better raiding, quicker expanding etc, they win the early air battles giving carefree expansion.The reason legion is behind vanilla is the air balance, work here. And by air balance I mean T1 fighter balance. . Put 30 v 30 fighters in top players hands and see If legion ever win.

    Basically legion isn't winning any tournaments or showing a crazy op unit. Buff /nerf when it's apparent, not because that's what vanilla did so we need to counter balance. What's wrong with the scorpion being vanillas locust. To me it was fun, T1 Legion is well behind the curve but t2 is likely better.
    Quitch likes this.
  4. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    47
    Scorp vs levelrs. A simple sandbox test with heado attack shows these results: 10 v 10. 2 Levelers are left standing. one of which has 1/2 health left. The units are pretty euqal with each other but given how scorps are infinitely better against any other units, i tend to think that they are a much better unit overall. Levelers can be better at killing buildings though.

    I think panzers are kinda sorta imba. They deal insane alpha strikes vs land, will shoot down air at great ranges and are immune to tactical missile defense + are amphib.

    Regarding MLA vs Legion balance, i think MLA is maaaybe better in 1v1 games because they have cheaper metal extractors and have better fighters. Legion is better in FFA and or team vs team. They can have insane land blobs of doom with panzers which will probaly beat even leveler blobs easy.
    Last edited: March 26, 2018
    Quitch likes this.
  5. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Version 1.3.1 - 2018-03-26

    Translations
    • Expanded to cover lobby chat messages
    • Added French (fr) and German (de) for lobby only, pending further unit description translations
    • Commander names are no longer translated so as to resolve them being displayed incorrectly in the lobby
    • Unit names are no longer translated in any language to ensure consistency of communication
  6. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    47
    Boom bots need a fix:


    They need to walk a bit closer to their opponent when not controlled? Otherwise they do not leap.

    Similarly the legion robot titan needs to walk a small bit closer when issued an attack order. Otherwise it doesnt use its laser on a stationary unit.
  7. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Version 1.3.2 - 2018-04-08

    Fixes

    • Infiltrator can now move between planets per its description
    • AI checks it can afford the build and running costs of the Infiltrator before building it
  8. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Version 1.4.0 - 2018-05-21

    Translations
    • Setup Legion unit names to allow translation by third party mods
    • Added Chinese (Traditional) with thanks to IPWIW
    Fixes
    • All Legion Commander descriptions now consistent in their format
    stuart98 likes this.
  9. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    722
    Here is an inconsistency of Legion and Titans which I would like to see fixed.

    The MLA titans have Greek names. Zeus, Ares, Helios.
    The Legion titans have Norse names. Thor, Odin, Tyr.

    But the MLA titan building has a Norse name (Ragnarok).
    And the Legion titan building has a Greek name (Holocene).

    So, for the sake of consistency, the last two names should be switched. I am definitely switching them in my mod of Legion, and I recommend that they be switched in base Legion too.

    And while you are at it, I would change the Greek name to Apocalypse, because it's more appropriate (what with the Apocalypse being the Greek version of Ragnarok).
  10. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

    Messages:
    989
    Likes Received:
    722
    Oh but you said you don't want to touch base Titans units...

    In that case your inconsistency merely reflects Uber's inconsistency... and is thus consistent with Titans at least, if not with the cultures concerned.
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  11. xankar

    xankar Post Master General

    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    Dude...
    stuart98 and lulamae like this.
  12. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

    Messages:
    2,517
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    He does have a point with the names, but as always lacks tact.
  13. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Please note that Legion is currently not working due to the withdrawal of key functions that it depended upon. We are currently investigating.
  14. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Community Mods disappeared for a short while, and with it the Companion Mod functionality that Legion Expansion depended upon to work. These have now been reintroduced to the game and so the Legion Expansion is working once more.

    If you have installed PA Mod Manager, be sure to disable all mods within it before using the in-game Community Mods functionality.

    Upon starting Planetary Annihilation you should see a yellow box at the bottom of the menu screen. It will ask you if you want to enable community mods functionality, and to do so you must click ENABLE and then restart Planetary Annihilation. Once done you will need to reinstall the Legion Expansion.
    Nicb1, kelwin99 and dukyduke like this.
  15. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

    Messages:
    4,822
    Likes Received:
    1,817
    ... so shall i rather re install the game completely? it´s not like i have any serious saves or so
    Last edited: June 20, 2018
  16. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Note that all players must have enabled Community Mods in their game, otherwise they will not receive the Legion Expansion client mod, which will lead to missing elements or crashes when the lobby launches.
    lulamae likes this.
  17. river39

    river39 Active Member

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    111
    Thos sounds like a crusial issue. Would it also workd if you have the mod installed but without cmm?
  18. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    I don't know, though that's such an edge case we're not planning to test it.
  19. river39

    river39 Active Member

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    111
    some people may deside not the use CMM because of privacy issues ;)
  20. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    But they'll use PAMM? Which somehow doesn't have those issues?

    Edge case.
    nimzodragonlord likes this.

Share This Page