Legion Expansion [Released!]

Discussion in 'PA: TITANS: General Discussion' started by Nicb1, May 3, 2016.

  1. icycalm

    icycalm Post Master General

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    What exactly is the point of a second faction when in every team game both sides can have access to both factions, to the point where they can even rush each other's structures?

    Is your expansion meant to be used only in 1v1s?
  2. wpmarshall

    wpmarshall Planetary Moderator

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    You only have access to both if you are on a shared armies game with mixed faction commanders.
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  3. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    When something crashes like that it just means something in the unit jsons isn't set up properly (usually an ammo.json if it doesn't crash right away but only when you fire). Did you try using them without area attack.

    Or you could just be using a nuke explosion effect that has a lot of emitters. Spam too many nukes like that and it'll crash the game.
  4. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Been messing around with legion the last few hours>

    Spectre doesn#t have an energy cost but you need energy to get it's vision radius.
    Land mines can be pre triggered by force attacking making them not need their 4 second trigger.
    One of the arms on the Decimator doesnt move like the other two
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  5. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    The Spectre behaves identically to the Hermes in this regard, though the Spectre loses vision earlier. This looks to be an oversight.

    The ability to manually trigger land mines appears to be intentional. Maybe @elodea remembers.
  6. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    Would understand if it was an alt-fire kind of command. Could be wrong but don't see any positives in not pre triggering them
  7. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    IIRC the legion mine does a few things,
    • Spawns invisible
    • Instantly triggers and becomes visible when unit in range
    • Starts spinning around and shooting shrapnel damage at things
    • After 4 seconds, self destructs causing additional damage
    I believe the shrapnel damage was something like 2/3 of the total damage, with the mine self destruct after 4 seconds being 1/3. So if you pretrigger them, the enemy can see them for 4 seconds and react appropriately before it detonates.

    As for whether the manual pretrigger was intended or not, I honestly can't remember. All I know is that i would have turned on carpet_fire to make testing faster, so it could very well be an oversight and I forgot to set carpet_fire back to false on the first stage, invisible land mine tool weapon. Depends how you guys think the legion mine should operate really :p.

    On one hand, i see the potential for people manually triggering legion mines to play interesting mind games. e.g. building and detonating a mine where the enemy can see it so they think there's a big minefield there they need detection for. Or you could slowly pre-trigger a minefield bit by bit to zone an enemy back. On the other hand, it's obviously an unintuitive break from the vanilla faction, and maybe those mind games could end up being op. Either way, easy fix if necessary (i think).
    Last edited: February 28, 2018
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  8. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    My assumption that it's intentional is that the mine has had the attack command added to it, which the MLA mine does not have.
  9. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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  10. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I've setup a translation project for the Legion Expansion to allow multiple people to easily contribute. If you can lend a hand it would be greatly appreciated!

    If a translation is currently empty but you're not 100% on the translation you're entering then please mark it as fuzzy. It's better to have a translation than no translation, but marking it as fuzzy will let others know they should review it.
    Last edited: March 6, 2018
  11. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    Fuzzy huh
  12. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    No, just fuzzy.
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  13. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    I see differences in the official translation that would suggest otherwise. For example:

    de: Dicard: Löschen

    de-AT: Discard: Verwerfen
  14. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    You mean gaelic. And PA already has other dialects, such as English (US).
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  15. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Google Translate is not an authoritative translation source and is not a substitute for professional translation services.
  16. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    Version 1.3 - 2018/03/15

    General
    • Maul, Earthshaker and Necromancer move to 10% of their range when attacking
    • Thor will move to bring its multilaser into range when attacking
    • AI no longer builds the Necromancer
    Translations

    For languages which use the Latin alphabet we are not including unit name translations at this time so as to avoid confusion when referring to units across languages. This was done on the advice of a number of our bilingual players.

    We can't include translations for client components like the lobby pop-up at this time due to client mod translations breaking vanilla translations. We have put the necessary frameworks in place for the future though.

    Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far!

    Translations added:
    • en-US, English (US)
    • ko, Korean
    • nl, Dutch
    Balance
    • Land
      • Scorpion
        • Damage reduced from 750 to 500
    • Titans
      • Odin buff
        • Main cannon can now shoot at units on the sea floor
    • Orbital
      • Spectre correction
        • Cost decreased from 300 to 200
        • Vision lost only once energy efficiency drops below 90% instead of 100%
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  17. DeathByDenim

    DeathByDenim Post Master General

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    I noticed that in the vanilla translation often (but not always?) the format "Translation (Original)" is used. For example, "Mier (Ant)" in Dutch. Of course, that doubles the length of the translation, but it might be a good way to do it maybe.
  18. Clopse

    Clopse Post Master General

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    That scorpion nerf is pretty crazy.
    Leveller 600 dps compared to scorpions 200?
  19. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    33% loss of damage to Leveler's 33% cost increase. What has been found is that the Scorpion does a lot more damage than it seems like it should because of its splash.

    Andreas will be keeping on eye on how that change does out in the wild.
  20. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    I think Clopse raises a good point, it seems like quite a bit of a decrease in dmg at first glance. Corresponding x% changes between different unit stats doesn't always produce as close an approximation as we might think. A few different things to think about.

    Assuming pre-existing equilibrium between two units (Unit A/Unit B), we can set our goal at maintaining said parity in isolation. As such, we would look at metrics like metal adjusted time to kill. It's not the bible because no two units are perfect substitutes/counterparts, and no two units interact only with each other. I remember intentionally tweaking scorpions not to be cost effective against levellers, and iirc andreas further increased scorpion cost ineffectiveness against levellers with a rof decrease.

    You may also have to look at tweaking deathmark/panzer/enforcer/monstrosity as well in response to leveller cost increase. So much of legion was balanced around leveller because leveller was so strong. That said, gotta start somewhere and a close approximation using time to kill is better than nothing.

    (Scorpion HP)/(Leveller dmg)*(Leveller rof), rounded up by (Leveller rof) gives 3 seconds. Scorpion's time to kill a Leveller on the other hand is 5 seconds. Adjust that 3 : 5 ratio by the metal cost ratio 6:8, (3/8) : (5/6)and we get 0.375 : 0.833 = 2.2 in favour of Levellers. With simple algebra, if we do Scorp dmg=500 and leveller cost=800, that ratio increases from 2.2 to 2.5 in favour of levellers.

    If we think Scorpion was not previously in equilibrium balance, we could find justification for the carried scorpion nerf against leveller of ~10-15%. I can't judge whether that's reasonable or not, up to people who know better than I do. Though it's certainly better than the approximate ~25% buff against leveller if you do nothing (Leveller cost=800, ratio goes from 2.2 to 1.66)

    Possible solutions off the top of my head
    • Scorpion dmg=500, scorpion rof from 0.4 to 0.6 (maintains 2.2 ratio). A lot of side effects. If you do this, you'd want to decrease aoe effects. Probably not the best.
    • Scorpion dmg=500, scorpion cost from 800 to 700 (2.18 ratio). This also gives you room to adjust scorpion hp from 1650 anywhere down to 1201 to compensate for side effects on it's interactions with other units (slammer/enforcer). Probably the best solution that i'd recommend.

    Beware side effects. For example, decreasing scorpion dmg to 500 reduces it's effectiveness against monstrosities by 50% (time to kill monstrosity goes from 20 to 30 seconds).
    Last edited: March 16, 2018
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