JUICE! DAMNED JUICE

The premise of this game is 6 classes playing the game watching and fending of Juiced players and figuring out how to get your own juice.

Oh look! I just arbitrarily decided what the premise of this game was, just like you did!

Look, I totally understand your frustration of people juicing on you multiple times, but I have to agree with the others that juice is NOT that horribly unbalanced right now. I play tank and assassin primarly, and as assassin, I can only do what you just described - juice 3 times in the first 3 minutes - if the other team is NOT ESCORTING THEIR BOTS or has some crazy mix of three snipers and three supports with maybe an assassin thrown in for good measure. When I play against good teams (and I am a better than average assassin) there are some games where I'm lucky if I can juice once, because all it takes is one gunner hiding behind those bots to ruin my juice up.

Now, I do think there are still some adjustments that should be made to juice. Yes, the tank lazerblazer juice gain fix needs to be implemented for 360, and I think that assassins should gain just SLIGHTLY less juice from killing bots. But I completely disagree with the premise of your complaint.

This game is fun BECAUSE of juice.

That's right, I said it! It's fun BECAUSE OF JUICE! It adds an excitement factor, and also a tension factor, to the game that it just simply wouldn't have without it. It's a game swinger and without it whichever team gained an early edge would probably almost always inevitably win the game.

I don't even mind the juice rushing at the end of the game now. It's much less than it was before the dlc, and it's actually really frenetic and fun.

If you ONLY care about the strategy and "balance," yeesh... go play a game of chess.

For real homie so this is not the premise of the game?
6 unique and BALANCED classes working together to defend their Moneyball and to destroy the other teams Moneyball

Could a staffer please tell me what the premise of the game is, I could be wrong, enlighten me?

Food for thought, buying juice prevents the other team from buying juice and going and wrecking your base.

I read nearly every post to be considered "up to speed" on the topic and to be honest, juicing does not make the game unbalanced in the slightest of ways. There is a skill to obtaining juice, a skill to using juice and a skill to killing somebody with juice or preventing juice. It's another dynamic to the game. PRE-DLC juice was never an issue for me. POST-DLC it's less of an issue, except for lazer blazers. But even then if I see a lazer blazer on the other team I kill it so my team don't juice off it.

If you bought the game when it first came out on top of playing it at PAX and you still aren't able to fight somebody with juice or accept that juice is good or even have prestige once yet -- I find it hard to take you as being credible. I bought the game about a month before title update occurred and I can do all the things you say cannot be done.

Quite simply, people crying because they're dying, simply don't hold the motivation to better themselves at the game. They shouldn't quit, but they should either put up or shut up really. Juice is a feature that is both a blessing and a curse, if you are yet to see the blessing of it, do not try and take it away from those who HAVE found it. I don't try to get drugs banned :/

Juice is Fine. Wanna stop a juicer? Here's the secret Grapple them, throw an ice trap, build a shaved ice do anything in your power to not let them win.

i like op's ideas

Juice is an important aspect of the game in my view. Although, the situation that pisses me off is when someone just kills bots until their juice meter fills up so they get juice. Usually, I see people die during or shortly after they've juiced up. Than, as soon as they spawn, they go BUY juice, and are back in your base juiced again. Two juice rushes in like 20 seconds. If you are against an entire team using this tactic, you're screwed, especially when playing with pubs.

This is my favorite tactic when I have extra money.

I like a lot of the ideas you have there, but like Billy said, Juiced players are much easier to combat, now. The teams I have been on(even when there are only two of us who are competent) have managed to repel juice rushes with a fairly regular frequency ever since the DLC, and I haven't seen too much juice rushing/chaining for quite some time.

Just food for thought, perhaps extra $ could be rewarded to the person who managed to kill someone with a full juice bar or is already juiced. This could possibly reduce the number of times someone will sit on a full bar (knowing that if they die, they are giving the other person extra money) and may try to play more carefully when Juiced (avoiding suicide runs) and suicide runs usually are the ones that does the most damage to base defenses.

Excellently said.
/thread
:ugeek:

Juice is a mixed bag for me. I enjoy using it and killing people while juiced is great but...
I do think though that each teams juice buying spot should be team only, put it inside our spawn.

One problem with juice it seems to cause intense lag, so a ninja with juice can be everywhere at once due to server glitches.

I have a ninja class with gold juice, and it is fun to have juice, but rediculously easy to get. Just like there is a cool down on the annihilator, there needs to be a cool down on your frequency of juice so that within 2 minutes the same player cannot juice 3+ times. Skill or no skill, if a single player can be nearly permanently juiced, then yes I would say it is in need of balancing.

The biggest problem is this game appeals to a much wider audience than your usual FPS. There definitely seems to be large number of players that are very casual gamers (lots of split-screening couples and kids) looking to have fun, and not get 500 kills. The sad thing is most of the players are really good at killing people refuse to touch the money ball which is the point of the game. Instead they slay the casual gamers for their own egos instead of actually attaining the goal.

Juice is fun when you get it, but in a 10 minute match no player should have it more than 2 times. A player should not be able to be juiced 1/3rd of the match.

Agree with everything, Make it happen Uber.

only thing i can add to this is that, as much as juice is necesary to break olympic-class turtle teams, it is too often the easy way to win against any kind of team. juice could stand to be 50% harder to get, and still be used to break a turtle team (since the turtle team wont be killing anyone in the field, so you can take your precious time getting juice).

making it to where juice costs $800, and making it to where you need 50% more juice to fill the meter, would alone fix both juice rushing stradegies, and lazor blazors.

just make it to where juice is possible, but not advantageous over regular combat when the enemy isnt turtling.

Are we talking about juice or assassins? Because juice as an assassin is the only way I'll do anything helpful if the enemy team has majority map control. Majority, meaning I can slip away and hit their bots in a blind spot for juice and try dislodging them.

think we are talking about the ones that juice as assassin constantly, and suck when they cant (because you use sniper and assaults galore against them on the bot lanes).\

i personally think that if you are pressed into your spawn, you should do one of two things

1)supports, tanks, and gunners all leave overhealed at the same time, kill everyone and bots and put up turrets.

2)all assassins cloak and escape spawn, some kill bots out of base, some kill turrets, some defend your bots. this might actually flip the game around if the enemy doesnt notice and just camps at your spawn while they fall.

assassins using juice to break out is more reasonable, them just trying to juice and do nothing else tho is just a drag and a cheap parlor trick that doesnt actually work on people who play better than a scrub lol.

What if persistent Juicing had diminishing returns? On the first Juice, you get all the benefits that players do now. On subsequent Juices, you get a stacking 33% reduction in benefit (i.e. the benefits of Juice would be reduced by 33% on second use, 66% on third, and no benefit for any beyond the third).

Using a Juice endorsement could reduce this penalty, giving Gold Juicers 6 uses before no benefit, Silver 5, and Bronze 4.

Stimulants do have diminishing benefits when used excessively (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Tolerance_and_withdrawal). It makes sense logically, and would help alleviate the constant Juicing that occurs in many matches now.