JUICE!(AGAIN!)

Let's not forget that it can be done from the safety of your base in what I believe is half of the maps.

slowest juice gain rate?

Humongous kill streaks and only one skill to upgrade?

Silly argument is silly

i completely upgrade slam, deploy, and passive. grapple goes to 2, and killstreaks only if you cant take him out.
and you are arguing my point.
fix juice chaining.

Maybe there could be limits on how many times you can juice within a certain time be it from getting juice normally or buying it? Thoughts?

How bout this?

Juice duration reduced in half.

Not sure if that has been proposed yet, but I think it would balance juice.

My thoughts? I think I fixed your post for yuh.

Nobody NEEDS to juice more than once every minute and a half, two minutes at maximum.

I say double the cool down for dispensers and/or move them so there is one below each spawn room.

Yeah no one needs it but they still do it don't they...

From what I see Juice only has two bad things about it, the dispencers, and meleing bots to gain juice(which I have not heard about until I read this topic) and both seem fixable. Juice is in my opinion is ment to be used as a trump card, eithr to crack a defence, or push back an assault, and while the game could funtion without it, it is a nice gimmick to have. Also, to the statement someone made about easily being able to take down a defence with teamwork, what happens when you play with randoms who don't have mics? You have to use juice at that point to get past the 3.3 rockits with a support or two babysitting them. The system could remain the same and I wouln't care, although improvements could be made.

Before Spunky, I dropped this game due to juice. I promised to play blitz until Spunky. It's much better after Spunky.

It could be even better, I think juice just needs to be useable only when needed and/or earned. Alternatively, make it do 2x damage and resist 1/2 damage, instead of 3 and 1/3 like it currently is.

I really don't see a problem with meleeing bots for juice. You leave yourself relatively vulnerable while doing it. If the other team is paying attention to the bot lanes, you won't be meleeing for long before you are bullied out of your position. If they're not paying attention, you're probably going to win anyway.

This is the right direction. Rather than make Juice more rare (increasing dispenser cooldowns, decreasing juice gain rate, etc) make the act of Juicing less powerful (decrease duration, decrease damage buff, decrease defense buff, etc).

Juicing should be a layer of strategy in the game and removing it/making is scarce is a disservice to that strategy. So to keep that layer, just make it less game-breaking.

Or make it more useful towards the objective. Reduce the damage it currently does toward pros, and its armor against pro weapons, and keep its current damage output/armor against turrets and bots. That way it wouldn't affect people like GrindouT who play a lot of Blitz.

Thoughts on that?

Make it different in crossfire and in blitz. Again, mainly the juice dispenser could use a little longer cooldown. Everything else could use to be left in the game. Should I make an anti-juice guide or something?

The Juice gain got nerfed because there is twice as many bots spawned on the PC version, IIRC.

I've posted about this elsewhere, but I'll sumamrize here since this seems to be a lively (and surprisingly civil) discussion thread.

Juice is not a problem per se. It is exciting (both to use, and for the fear rush of trying to deal with it) and furthermore, it is already programmed into the game. It would be a big waste of game assets to just do away with it.

So what are the problems that it currently causes. I hear two main complaints: First, that it can be (and often is) used to rack up kill streaks for the fun of it (while the juicing players ignore the moneyball). Second there is a concern that it simply unbalances the objective-based play. Specifically many people note the facility with which juiced assassins of moderate skill can lay waste to even a well built base.

As regards the first problem, I see it as annoying, but not a true balance issue. Sure it is annoying, but ultimately it means that those players are actually hurting their team's defense be taking their eye off the (money)ball. It is in the second case where it becomes an issue of balance because it changes the tide of the actual objective.

So what solutions make sense? I think the following are all reasonable and would alleviate the main problems without doing away with the purpose of having juice in the game:

* Modestly reduced damage (or juiced damage) vs. turrets for the assassin's sword and perhaps the gunner's mortar. Both weapons can demolish even overhealed, lvl 3 rock-it turrets in under 2 seconds. This makes building turrets somewhat pointless in a game with a focused assassin (one who makes it his or her business to get juice and wreck the base again and again)

* Timer on actual USE of juice. This has been mentioned in the thread already and I think it is a fantastic idea. It is a much more elegant solution than having to play with other variables such as individual class juice gains and dispenser timers.

* Barring the above, eliminate the most degenerate methods of juice farming (lazer taunting/demploying and bot meleeing)

Each class has built-in methods for getting juice already. On top of that, killing bots and players and Bullseye rewards you with juice boxes. I think that these things alone add up to about the right scarcity for juice. I see juice as a reward for both staying alive AND being active. no need to have several "special" ways to get it super quickly (other than dispensers, which are limited, cost resources, and are subject to map control). That's my $0.02

I think if the Assassin's juice gain rate got lowered, and something about buying juice was changed (make the timer affect both machines, increase timer, take buying juice out completely - something) it won't seem as bad. I'm still not sure what I think about meleeing bots, but taunting in front of Lazer Blazers definitely needs to be taken out.

I don't see how people can defend the Gunner's juiced mortars. They are definitely overpowered. Juice gain is reasonable for a Gunner, and you get a lot of money from kills/streaks too. Plus your jetpack means you can juice and take out turrets from relative safety.

I play a lot of gunner, so I'm not saying I don't like the above, but it IS overpowered.