Jigs are so broken

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by davostheblack, November 1, 2014.

  1. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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  2. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    wow! much input! such convince! wow!
  3. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    thanks
  4. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    [​IMG]Urrrrr Woofcome!
  5. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    I had a shiba before it was cool
  6. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    Can you explain why that is the case?

    It's possible that you're correct and that the jig is fine... but there's a lot of points that have been expressed in this thread (and others) that seem to disagree.

    Could you provide some points as to why the jig is "fine"?
  7. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    They just need to be separated into mass and energy versions, that's all. As they stand now, they give you an incredible economic gain but they are very fragile and easily raidable. They are harder to defend than energy sats, but give more rewards. It has an easy counter, and it's a risk to invest in something that has an easy counter just as everything else.
    It's like the equivalent of building a paragon in FA, it's fairly easy to counter if you can see it.
    Last edited: November 3, 2014
  8. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    You say that they're "easily" raidable, but because of the economic advantage you get, you are much better prepared to defend them and still have excess economic power to place into more production facilities.

    They break the paradigm that PA has with metal spots being pre-defined locations also, for what is arguably in the end, just a gimmick unit that doesn't really do anything.

    Who was really complaining that PA's economic power was too slow in the mid-to-late game and that we needed a metal-maker/fusion-powerplant combination that has zero limitation on placement other than "Is it on a Gas Giant?"
    ace63, iron71 and tatsujb like this.
  9. theseeker2

    theseeker2 Well-Known Member

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    it doesn't take too many fighters to destroy them though, you really don't need a gas giant economy to counter a gas giant economy.
    I haven't tried, but can nukes hit them?
  10. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    not realy as their location is limited to gasgiants only you cant build them anywere else ...
    i also wouldnt call them a gimmick neccesarily as they have significance depending on systemsetup otherwise why have gasgiants at all? they do have a very specific impact in gameplay even if limited ...
  11. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    it's irrelevant, you cannot undo the done damage of a couple of built jigs
    yes, the surface area of a gaz giant also makes this a wasted endeavour
    what??!
    yes, x'ept
    [​IMG]
  12. zgrssd

    zgrssd Active Member

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    @tatsujb: Regardign map design.
    The Editor allows you to design the system you want. If you systems has excessive orbital ways or is so symetrically a stalemate has to happen, this is not the games fault. It's like making a 1v1 map with a giant rockformation in the middle (splitting the ground area), then complaining ground war sucks because there are no mass unit transports. If you had to go that far out of your way to create an issues, all you have to do is stop trying to create an issue.

    Regarding "the damage done by Jigs".
    First of all, Jigs are a game ender. The same way the anni-laser is and the halleys are supposed to be. Unlike the other they do not end the game by blowing the enemy up. They just allow you to build the other ones or units/nukes much faster.

    Second, jigs cost 3k metal. They produce 36. Wich means it take 83.3 seconds before one jig has brought in it's own metal cost.
    Since there is also only one fabber, we can even quantise it's energy cost. Orbital fabbers use 45.5 energy per metal, wich means 136.5k Energy per jig. Those it has back in in 34 seconds. But then again power is something you should always have in surplsus anyway, so it is not quite an important figure.
    Every jig you kill before the 83th life second has passed is a net metal loss for the enemy. And that asumes you don't also get to kill his orbital workers, wich cost 1.6k metal, have 50 HP (2 avengers shoots) and have to be brought in from afar.

    Regarding, "is there a counter"?
    Yes, there is: Don't try to use the game ender.
    All game enders have in common that they need significant resources and time investment. If you try to go for it without having a proper eco lead or orbital game lead already, you are about to loose more then you gain. If you try to build a halley before the anti-nuke, you can guess what happens with your halley.
    Planets provide a lot easier to defened resources. Simply because the enemy cannot just "drop in orbitally", do some damage and run into IP space before you get to him.

    Each avenger only costs 800 metal. It is half as expensive as 1 fabber, with 5 times the HP.
    Jigs only have twice the HP of a avenger, while also beign immobile, not being able to shoot. and costing 3.5 times what a avenger does.
    All metal and attention the enemy is not investing into nukes, avengers or conventional units for a orbital invasions.
  13. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    @tatsujb

    so i take it they are to weak then, or what?
    if they don't have an impact then why are you arguing that gas giants limit your strategic choices?
    are you saying now gas giantrush is generaly entirely meaningless?

    you lost me ...
  14. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    you donnot speak yoda, that is why.
  15. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    yea maybe you shouldnt speak yoda but speak sense ... so would you mind to stay on topic .. p l e a s e ?
  16. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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  17. Biestie

    Biestie Member

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    Yoda translation: "Have limited impact they do not" = "They do not have limited impact"
  18. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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  19. Bhaal

    Bhaal Active Member

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    Was Metalheck or CorePrimeIndustrial or SevenIslands broken? I dont think so, it just offers different gameplay. Learn to deal with it and adapt.
  20. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    yea bad wording on my part
    apologies ..

    "they do have very specific impact ... even though they are limited in gameplay ... as in they are limited to gasgiant play"

    kind of agree with that ...
    the problem however simply is you have much more toys on ta metalmaps then on pa gasgiants ..
    the challange is to make pure orbitalplay intresting and fun enough without losing sight of surfacebattles ...
    Last edited: November 4, 2014

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