Jigs are so broken

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by davostheblack, November 1, 2014.

  1. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    This. Also, like the Annihilaser, gas giants can be sniped if you are still "viably in the game". If annihilaser, all else fails nuke the pole to destroy catalysts, or SXX snipe. If Gas Giant, drop 10 avengers on each jig, even if 10 jigs you can destroy them even as your opponent builds them. If they build 6 or 7 then you just drop avengers on the last built one, destroying it, and the fabbers afterwards, and you drop 4 on 4 seperate ones and destroy as many as you can nearby to spread thin his orbital forces. You will just keep burning down his eco farm every time he establishes it.
  2. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    and what, may I ask, is the counter to that?

    one of the things I loved about supcom was that EVERYTHING was superseded by something else. Everything had a counter.

    what's the counter to orbital fighter Jig pinpoint arrival?

    I made a whole thread about this if you remember https://forums.uberent.com/threads/lets-face-it-nobody-likes-orbital-arriving-pinpoint.64128/
  3. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    how does it limit your choices?
    if you make a well designed system you can use everything the game offers you ...
    that is rather wrong ...
    it is a matter to what your enemy does that may limit the effectiveness of your choices
    so you have that along the systemgeneration too ...
    what you basicly are asking is that every move you want to make shall be viable ...
    " i want the game to allow me to destroy everything including air and gasgiant orbital with skitter!"
    (yea i am exagarating) but that is nonsense ... also why should be the vanguard for example be the best unit why should be the dox or slammer be the best unit? is the dox the best unit on a lavaplanet with small islands or continents??

    no offense or anything
    but to me this seems like
    simply ignoring mathematics and logic .. for mere fun of stuff being blown up ... were is the strategy in everything being viable at the same time? ...

    so you want to nerf the jigs?
    and that shall do what? making gasgiant rushes any less viable? if that were so what would be the point in gas giants in the first place?
    how much less shall one jig produce how much more shall it cost to build? how big a space shall a jig take up? does it realy need a flat nerf or a rather tweaking ...
  4. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    are you kidding me?

    you say no limits then to prove your point you start a sentence starting with "IF" !!

    next up : when do you use tanks? or land factories in general except all of never?

    you have dox! you only use dox! they do all that the tank does and they do it better, AND they do some stuff the tank doesn't.

    once the orbital phase is reached do you build anything other than avengers and anchors?

    NO you build those two units!

    en masse!

    particularly the avenger!

    all the ******* time!

    every single game!
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  5. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    you cant play with naval on lava let alone any unit surfacewise on gasgiants .. these are pyisical limitations ..

    but what we are talking about are limits of efficiency ..

    yes i do build more than just dox if my economy allows it and it helps .. yes i do build more than just avangers and anchors when the situation allows/demands it ...

    and i have seen many good players using more than just dox and avangers ...
  6. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    @MrTBSC you are too good at pretending it's all good.

    "oh sure we use dox 99% of the time but I still give a tank or two a pity-build once in a while. IMO, that counts as balanced".
    Last edited by a moderator: November 2, 2014
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  7. suspision

    suspision Member

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    It's the wrong way around. A pinpoint strike IS the counter to a defence network.

    Try and take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture. Not every unit or specific move needs a direct counter.
    In this case invading/attacking another planet there are the defender and attacker roles to play. Each with advantages and disadvantages.


    @davostheblack
    I agree the jig is a bit to powerfull now. Increasing the price or widening the build gap would help. I do have to add that your 1400 jig empire is also possible because your opponents probably did not pay enough attention.
  8. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    yes. that's what I said. now what's the counter to that?
    you act like being preventive stops it from happening.

    Seriously you could be dukeing it off with avenger spam to the gaz giant AND STILL both of you could be building jigs at random on it's surface while the fight rages on. And if you try to divert forces to jig-squashing you loose the avenger battle so ultimately the gaz giant.

    You guys act like a jig being snuck onto a gaz giant is something you can stop. evidently it's not. you guys act like there's something of a fair fight going on between guy who got there first to the gaz giant and guy who was a minute late. .....there isn't.

    so stop saying it's the opponent playing bad. The case figures allowing one to get to the gaz giant first are incredibly circumstantial. and as such it's a diceroll question.

    "who will spawn alone and be left alone on his orbital rush and who will spawn neighbours with three other guys?"
    Last edited: November 2, 2014
  9. radongog

    radongog Well-Known Member

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    Jigs are extremly squishy, it´s really hard to defend them very well!
    So, in general, they absorb MUCH attention for mainly financing their own protection---but of course they are really powerfull ones you´ve unleashed their power!
  10. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    Squishy you say?

    Ubr nurf Squishypone plz.
  11. Raevn

    Raevn Moderator Alumni

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    Keep it civil, keep it on-topic, and keep personal comment out.




    Continue.
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  12. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    Jigs are boring. I think that's a bigger problem.
    tatsujb likes this.
  13. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    so how exactly are they boring?
    i mean there isn't realy much to do with powerplants mexxes and storage either why should those be "fun"?
  14. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    They're not. All of them are just "magic" boxes that make energy or power... or in the Jig's case, both.

    That's kind of my point. All of the Eco buildings in this game are boring.

    To make them fun, I think there should be some mechanics that are inherent to a solar system that make power generation interesting (like a solar cycle) or for metal, make it vary from planet to planet (like we were told it would on Lava planets for example)
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  15. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    @nanolathe

    .. the game is still young .. so we'll see if more resourceproductionfacilities may come afterwards ...
    i could see thermal plants and liqiud metal extractors still be added in a way to make lavalplanets strategicaly more intresting .. but solarplants with the day night cycle or eclipses sounds too random their output would have to be generaly higher than a generic powerplant to be worth to build ... otherwise it would be just another unitmodel in the unitpool being barely to never used ..

    the fact that resource facilities like the powerplants are "magicboxes" wont change
    even if they were solar or air it would be just a matter of condition x being true or not ..
    as for more complex productionchains such as anno ... no chance with this games scale ..
    would be to vulnerable and messy with this games pace ...

    personaly i would rather see the t2 versions of the metal extractor and powerplant be removed and be replaced through the jigs, thermalplant and liquidmexx ... ultimatly the jigs already does replace both when gasgiants are in play .. it would make more sense to increase the output of the t1 plant (not by much though) and mex and have the other facilities be the planet specific additions ..
    mexxes can be on any planet and plants can be built on any surface, jigs are gasgiant specific
    liquid mex and thermal could be lavaspecific with their own extractionpoints while being limited to be build giving the highest output of any resourcefacility ..
    as for metalplanet ... i don´t think it needs anything resourcespecific .. it has its role as gameender/lategameweapon ...
    the rest would be tweaking ..
    Last edited: November 3, 2014
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  16. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    https://forums.uberent.com/threads/what-game-modes-should-we-start-with.43223/page-10#post-760456 :)
  17. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    I don't want new game modes. I want the ones we already have to not bore me to tears first.
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  18. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    why not change the one we already have to a new game mode
  19. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

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    I honestly don't see the difference. You have a Commander you protect, you have an opponent you must destroy.
    That's the game mode. It's just that everything about that game mode is currently implemented in the most tedious, inconsequential and flavourless way. I don't feel the need for a "new" gamemode. I just want this one to have a little character.
  20. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    @nanolathe I know what you mean. I was just suggesting making this default. by now I'm disillusioned.

    my only hopes to get these things, such as more interesting eco making use of the solar system gimmik, actual true orbital KSP style, better feel for fights is a mod more successful than vanilla.

    I just want a platform for modders to build on that's welcoming, that's valorizes creator content, multiplayer, the community and it's interaction, community's balance opinions the way faf does.

    currently with Uber's attitude towards:
    • mods (eg mods, mod forum and related threads hidden, devalorized, mod market integration (I know nothing's said on mod market but still, lotsa bullshit going on there))
    • community interaction (eg global chat)
    • multiplayer ("who the hell needs ladder anyways? - whoa shi t! - ok! ok! here take your damn ladder!")
    • balance ("oh you have opinions on balance, that's cute... I have a parakeet, yes actually these two things have a common thread : none of them are going to influence my balance ideas")
    that's the only thing I'm left to hope for : that we wrestle back control of PA's community through passive means : mods. or rather ONE BIG MOD.
    davostheblack likes this.

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