Introducing the Planetary Vanguards

Culverin suggested this but i will post it..

Did many of you like the "Game status Brain Dump" thread neutrino wrote??
That was a result of the original letter to uber to get the 2 way communication ball rolling..

From that it slowly evolved into the Vanguard idea..
A way we can alert the Dev's to needed information in the community.

In that case you were replying to me.

I didn't suggest once the Vanguard were a new group of admins, it states quite clearly at the start of the thread you don't hold the same powers as a mod (for example). I understand what you are here to do and I think it's a great thing! I'm happy the Planetary Vanguards were created, yayyy!

My point was (and I think this is why you threw in your draconian comment) members of the Planetary Vanguard should be held to a high standard of communication and forum behaviour. Your code of conduct states you must be "polite and courteous". In the past I have seen various forum members who are now Vanguards act in a manner which is mutually exclusive with being polite and courteous. I am simply suggesting that to be maintained as a Vanguard, a member must observe your code of conduct thoroughly, and breaches should equal expulsion, not a slap on the wrist.

The position of a Vanguard is after all, one which is voluntary, of privilege and carries some (perceived) authority. Why should you not have to follow your code? It's not like its hard to be polite!

What's draconian about that?

3a: How will these conversations be tracked?
3b:How will other Vanguards be made aware of this?
3c: Is it all word of mouth communication?

But this isn't true, you yourself are in fact a moderator cola.
4a:How will we prevent a conflict of interest?

5a: Conflicting information, which of the two is it?

5b: Can this be seen as a sign of the communication between Vanguards already failing?

Because it might give the impression to people in the Uber community that Uber favours members of certain organisations over others. It also might give the impression that a certain group of people holds a position of power.

10a: Has clan bias been discussed by the Vanguards in the past?
10b: How will the Vanguards deal with accusations of showing favouritism to certain communities?

But there is a system in place:

13a: Is this another sign of communication between Vanguards failing?
13b: By what standard will the questions SXX talks about be measured?
13c: Will these summaries and rewritten questions that Vanguards send to Uber be logged in any way?
13d: Will these conversations be made public?
13e: What if someone worries their ideas might be misinterpreted?

Fresh and new questions:

14: Why did it take you guys till page 4 of this thread before any mention of a Vanguard CoC is made?
15: Why hasn't a list of the Vanguard members been made public?
16: the CoC mentions 'united front' when referring to the Vanguards. How will this be combined with the idea that the Vanguards are in fact a diverse group of people with different opinions?

17: One of the Vanguards is already expressing doubt on whether or not they are actually fit for the position.
What is the official Vanguard position on insecurities shown by Vanguard members? Remember, your CoC states that you need to have a majority vote on important issues. Forum behaviour of the Vanguards in general is an important issue.

18: How can normal community members see if Vanguards are in 'Vanguard mode' or in normal member mode when discussing ideas?

19: How can normal community members see if Vanguard ColaColin is in 'Vanguard mode' or in 'Forum moderator mode' or normal member mode when discussing ideas?

20: How can normal community members see if a Vanguards post is their individual opinion or the voted on opinion of the Vanguards as a whole?

21: Will the Vanguards be active in official Vanguard capacities on the other networks:
a: Reddit
b: Steam
c: in game chat
d: Facebook
e: Twitter

22: This conflicts with their CoC, which states that the Vanguards might get information that won't be shared with the rest of the community just yet. Isn't receiving information early a privilege?

Quote from CoC:

23: How can this be enforced, members of the Vanguard have to abide the CoC. But as soon as they aren't a member anymore they don't have to follow this CoC. How will a situation where an ex member starts sharing information be handled?

Please let the Vanguards do what they do. Nothing bad will happen. And if it will happen then everybody can say: "I have told ya, man! Bad happens now! I saw the future, man!"

LOL my bad..
I consider all communication out-side of my immediate family a privilege
I don't communicate much at all , Here on the PA forum is the most communication i have participated in in a long time
(haven't socially communicated since school im 31 now )
I'm an introverted person, im usually not very social ..

I don't think we should sweep any concerns we have now under the rug.

We are talking about a group of 14(?) people that will act as the main communicator between a development studio of about 50 (?) people and a community of 44k+ Kickstarter backers regarding a project with a development time of about 18 months with a budget of at least 2.2 million dollars.

Agreed.
feedback is needed and we need to clarify things so people don't get the wrong idea ..

The Vanguard member list:
@cola_colin
@Culverin
@cwarner7264
@greppy
@KNight
@ledarsi
@liquius
@maxpowerz
@nanolathe
@SXX
@thetrophysystem
@wpmarshall
@YourLocalMadSci
@zaphodx

Wow killer. That was nitpicky. My main concern was (sorry for singling out) vanguards like knight writing off posts like he is known to do because he believes it is too soon in such that the devs will never see. But this concern was derived from my own misunderstanding of which mike himself helped clarify.

I just shared my personal humble opinion what's good can be done for community if this idea will work.

Uber can't spend time on low-priority things like organizing such interview or questions collection/redacting/etc.

Such people are found anyway and this group it's just transparent way to handle it. E.g there already was multiple people who handle most of modding, Culverin spend tons of time on collection UI related info. I'm push them technical issues, crashes since alpha started.

Nothing will change, Uber just approved new idea and want to see how it's would work. Otherwise everything might stay like it was.

I don't think it is these multiple people that people have reservations over. That said we cannot be annoyed or frustrated by the people whom signed a letter to make the communication better with the devs.

Sorry for the missquotes. Getting them right is ... err.. sooo many quotes
I think it is readable.

[/quote]
There are 2 conversations:
One with us 14 plus all important uber stuff that discusses the letter and is one of our direct communication channels with Uber
Another one with us 14 alone were we make plans on what to do.

I was a moderator long before this started. I understood your question was aimed at "do you vanguards get extra forums rights?" Which is a no. However I cannot see a conflict of interest. How does the interest between a moderator and a vanguard differ? The Code of conduct for the vanguards looks pretty much like how a mod has to behave in the first place.

5a) "Compensation" sounded like money to me. Which is a no. If you consider direct communication with Uber a compensation than yes that is something that Vanguards "get"
5b) No, it just shows that we are not a borg overmind that thinks always the same thing
But yeah we should we talked to each other what we want to answers first. However I think out of all your questions this is the only one where our answers differ. So I'd say that isnt too bad and it shows that we do have a sort of agenda.

10a) Not to my knowledge
10b) You are seeing it in this thread I think.

13a) I dont understand, I cant see something wrong
13b) Yes we will have to judge what people are worried about the most, if that is what you are getting at. However we will do so with our personal opinion held back (see CoC) and after discussing things internally.
13c) No, not in an public form
13d) Not directly
13e) That is something you need to worry about all the time when writing in a forums. No matter who reads it. Also I can imagine that we actually go about more like "Uber there is a thread were people are all concerned about X. Lots of good posts there, read it carefully"

Good question. Internal discussions. We actually had to format it into an easy to read pdf for example.

The current members of our internal conversation are: cola_colin, Culverin, cwarner7264, greppy, KNight, ledarsi, liquius, maxpowerz, nanolathe, SXX, TheTrophySystem, wpmarshall, YourLocalMadSci, zaphodx
These are the current Vanguards.

We are free to state our own opinion as long as we clearly state that it is our opinion. However we aim to have official standpoints that we reach by internal discussion. If a Vanguard

Personally I'd argue that self criticism is a good thing.

Assume Vanguard mode, unless stated otherwise. See the CoC: We are required to say something like "In my opinion" or "I think" to state our personal opinions.

So I have 3 Modes already, wow. Seriously: I think I have the habit of writing an "I think" in front of personal speculation/opinions. There is no difference between moderator and vanguard "mode" as far as I can see.

same as 18?

That I have no answer to. Needs internal discussion. However I think that the forums is the most important source of communication currently.

[/quote]

24: How is Community manager Brad Nicholson involved with the Vanguards?

actually, thekiller races a lot of concerns that i have over the whole thing. I wouldnt be as bothered if it was not such a blatantly obvious monopoly. Its great that uber accepted an idea that originated from the realm, but that does not mean the majority of the members should be from the realm.

Obviously, there are certain people from the realm who deserve it, but there are also others who do not.

Gunshin, nobody really has the intention to make this a realm thing.

The whole concept of the vanguards is still on trial, so we dont know yet exactly how brad might be involved in the future. He doesnt have special role in this right now. However so far he has been a part of the internal discussion with Uber, helping us to reach some Uber devs who are not as active in the forums otherwise.

PERSONALLY <-- I dont get this whole clan monopoly thing if one clan is larger than another it's not a monopoly.
If it consists of people whom are considered more skilled or whatever that is just a coincidence or maybe "Birds of a feather flock together" helps clarify that problem by stating that people join like minded people or people they find similar to themselves.

The realm was one of the first PA clans when i started playing, the first MP game i had i was owned by a realm member.
From that i decided i'd like to join them so i could learn better strategies and be a part of that community.
I was never forced to join the realm because there was no other viable option.

As a non-Realm member,
I haven't seen any sort of bias or preferential treatment because of Realm association.

Yeah of course I understand this, I was the first person to mention it after all. Fault lies with the devs, not the realm or their members. Some silver linings have clouds. Great Idea perhaps just executed wrong. Let's just play the cards we have been dealt And I'm sure all will go well.

It's good to get all this information out publicly from the get-go. I'm sure Killer has only the best intentions in mind

Honestly, Gunshin, the people who were asked to co-sign the letter were not chosen on the basis of clan affiliation. That simply wasn't a criteria we judged anyone against. The list of people were people whose names we thought would throw more weight behind the initial letter. It was not intended to be a comprehensive and representative list because the formation of any sort of formal group was not the initial intention.

The makeup of the Vanguards will almost certainly change - it's absolutely not set in stone. As has been emphasised throughout this thread, the whole thing is very much an organic entity.

I've seen it mentioned several times in this thread, so I'll directly address this 'monopoly' situation here:

Nobody is forced to join the Realm, nobody is forced to remain a member. People leave, people join, people stay. Neither I nor any other person has control over who does and who does not apply for membership. We have not been aggressively pushing recruitment since the beginning of Alpha. I'm of course extremely proud of the fact that so many have put their faith in us as a group, and proud of what we've achieved as a community, but I try my utmost in my conduct on these forums to remain as even-handed as possible.

If you feel that the conduct of any Vanguard who is also a Realm member is inappropriate as a result of their joint affiliations, please contact us. We are here to push the agenda of the entire community, not a sub-section of it. I am also confident that non-Realm Vanguards will speak up if clan bias becomes apparent.

Hey, bro, we don't want to take a hands off approach in the slightest. Like, not at all. We're all still here talking to ya'll and reading everything we possibly can. Feel free to contact me (or others) directly whenever!