Improving the Tank's Options

this is all u really care about. i knoes it from having seen quite alot of assassins in my day.

charge grapple from behind WILL kill a tank u just gotta set it up and not miss. u can even turn off ur cloak to get closer without being soundwhored

One of the other things I find hurts the tank is that you run backwards as fast as you run forewards. People can just backpeddle whilst shooting you for no disadvantage.

Make it so the tank cant damage himself with the adds from the cluster mine please

Charge does huge damage, its about the only way to kill a gunner.

Tank 3, a slight speed buff would be nice? Possibly OP though

Or just use the charge and get up so quickly the tank cant do much?

Also a backstab, even with tank 3 and armour 2 will put you onto piddly health. Do it infront of bots/turrets/friendlies and its 90% of the time an instakill

I think the main thing would be to give the Jet Gun a slight improvement, perhaps getting closer would give you a reasonable damage boost? Otherwise, the Product Grenade and Charge work perfectly well with the Railgun, I think.

Product grenade is fine, other than the bomblets taking off half (or more) of your health when chasing someone. For me L2 is almost more useful than L3. Charge is great. The railgun, whilst not an amazing primary does its job, its pretty easy for someone to run away from you when you use it at range but thats that. The jet gun, it either needs a RoF boost, or a base damage boost, or a range boost. Right now that thing is useless

hahaha your post is a complete lol

so you shoot someone running away with your grenade, hold the jump button and woah you'll float over them, or simply dont run straight through the bombs...

and you think the jet gun is useless?
i cant even dignify that with a response

It is against back peddling players, yes.

Yes, the jet gun IS useless. It does less damage than the minigun at every range, has a smaller clip than it. Flying is slower and you still dont evade the damage, its just poorly designed imho. Also, given the tank is the slowest class in the game, people just backpeddle whilst shooting you and guess what? Their out of range

well since you insist on getting prooved wrong, i will give you a response

theres such thing as a tactic called ambush,
of course they're gonna backpedal if they see you runnin straight at them. and if you didnt know you can also use the charge to get closer to your enemies, thats what i use it for more than half the time. although the tank is probably the biggest most noticeable character, you must learn the art of the sneaky tank. All tanks should have RoF as their gold endorsment honestly, even with silver armor an assassin will not kill you in a backstab.

if you have RoF 3 on the jet gun you can take out an assault before he has time to turn around, unless he has health endorsments, in which case make use of the grenade, charge, and railgun. and if you sneak up on him while he's looking down his sights he's much much slower than you and has a fairly narrow line of sight so you can easily sneak to him.

same for gunners, they die in less than 3 seconds if they dont have a health endorsment if they do then make use of other tank abilities. they are also extremly slow while shooting (even slower actually) and will not backpedal you fast enough, not nearly.

supports tend to have a little bit more health with endorsments and lvl 3 passive and they can steal your health, so they are most likely the hardest, but a good charge'n burn will have them lower than 1/4 health.

assassins are a joke to an experienced tank, even cloaked they die in less than a second. and if they're not in your range, they are most likely running for their life from you and are not going to turn around and shoot you.

and snipers are usually extremely slow aswell due to lack of need of speed endorsments, and have a serious lack of health, they die in a blink of an eye.

Um... You do know that EVERY class benifits from ambushing right? Not to mention they can all do it better than the tank can with higher damaging weapons and movement speed?

A noob assasain is a joke to a tank. A smart one simply waits for you to take a tiny bit of damage then backstabs you and your instadead just like any other class.

Good luck getting near the sniper with 3 traps, an insane grapple and a jump that goes over your head and completely breaks the registrations on the jet gun

Supports shotgun vastly out damages the jet gun

Gunners do far more damage to you and have a 1 hit kill tank button (slam, blasts you out of range and slows you down)

Assault can backpeddle and bunny hop and guess what, you'll never get near him. Alternatively he just charges because his L3 charge beats yours.

All other classes can ambush better than the tank, they move faster and do more damage in exchange for not all that much less survivability. Sniper takes 3 railgun shots, a tank takes 6 yet the sniper moves faster and does far more damage. Im not denying the tank is fun, hes just gimped compared to the other classes. Stop trying to make out that im somehow a 'bad' tank because i accept the class isnt as good as it should be

good job completley ignoring my ambush suggestion, and i was making my suggestions based of mostly jet gun use and you're bringing in skills and what not, good job unbalancing the argument. and please blame the player not the game

assassins waiting for a "tiny bit of damage"? umm actually it would take quite a decent ammount about 1/6-1/5 of his health even with silver armor, gold it takes about 1/5-1/4 (varies wether sword or dagger). and as for the assassin actually grappling you, that is up to player skill not the class.

snipers are not a tanks target usually so you probably will not be going after him and getting stuck in his traps (if they're on the frontlines, well heres a clue dont step on them). and as for his grapple well, when you see a sniper running at you, you should probably backpedal yourself and melt his face off. and his jump? um, i thought you were kidding about the jumping thing but if he's jumping and you cant kill him, yet again blame the player not the game.

supports? i dont know, i honestly never have a problem with them, i can always take them down after a good grenade and charge. so i say yet again player skill not game.

thank you captain obvious, yes the gunner does do more damage but since when has that mattered ever? and as for his slam, jump? not to mention you could also charge to get out of sight if you do get hit cause you will most likely be thrown far away.

you completley ignored the thought of ambush for the assault, and also player skill wether or not you can dodge his charge.

nearly every point you made deals with overall player skill not actual game mechanics. and as for every other class better at ambush? wow, completley blew my mind. first off the tank has a ridiculous ammount of health, yes he actually does he has 2 passive skills upgrading it and endorsments and he has the highest base health (hes an f-ing tank). a gunner IS slower when revved up, an assault has much much less health and less damage, as for all the other classes i dont even feel the need to describe.

As I said before, most other classes can outdamage the tank and have higher movement speed, a huge health pool doesn't count for **** when you're easily outrunnabe and outdamaged, funny you should say what the other guy brought up was irrelivant when you consider that. The jet gun and charge are ONLY usable within spitting distance and can be countered way too easily, any decent player will just back peddle the tank and shoot him in the face.

The Tank's only saving grace is that the charge hits like a freight train, but even with that it's on a 6.5 second cooldown without endorements, and 4.5 with gold. That's two seconds less for sacrificing a gold endorsment, it's a total waste, he needs it to get in and out of combat, and if he blows it on movement, he's going to be back peddled, and if he used it on damage, he might get a kill if the target already took some damage, but he will be fucked afterwards if anyone who can hit the side of a barn sees him and *drum roll* backpeddles. Product grenade is lackluster at best, it's possible to blind/kill yourself with it and it doesn't hinder movement.

The Jet Gun totally sucks, it is outdamaged by both the Assault Rifle and Minigun even with a gold ROF, and it can not be used at range.

Compare the Tank to the Gunner or Assault.

The Gunner can outdamage pretty much anything with the duel minigun from RANGE, and has a faster run speed. If he ambushes, he doesn't have to worry about putting himself in much danger because he has the advantage of range and a high damaging minigun, and can kill pretty much anyone before they have a chance to turn around.. He can also fly, so he can go anywhere the Tank can go only faster. Against a tank at close range, he can slam them away even in the middle of a charge and finish them off for a free kill, the Gunners I kill at close range with a Tank are the ones who never use any of their skills and only buy the duel minigun.

The Assault can attack and kill pretty much anything from range with his gun quickly, just as fast if not faster than the Tank's jet run. He also has a much faster movement speed, allowing him to use hit and run tactics much more effectivly than the tank and can bunny hop effectivly. If he ambushes, he can easily kill someone before they turn around as well, and he also has the luxury of range in addition to his remote explosive which can be used to prevent an enemy from running. At close range, his grapple charge in infinetly more useful than the Tank's, not only because it puts opponents at range and nearly kill them, but because it can be used as an escape tool as well. Against the Tank, the Assault will either run away and decimate them from range, or he will meet the Tank head on and charge him off the map.

Do not tell us the Tank is fine against pros, he's a bot destroyer and nothing else, the highest K/D I've seen with the tank in a game was 30+ something, and that was with me playing him against people who didn't know the concept of back peddling and I knew what I was doing with him. I've only had it happen a few times, but I see many people getting 40 and 50+ with the Gunner, Assault, Sniper and Support quite often, but I have only seen one person get a KD with the Tank as high as mine, low 30s, and he only killed me once that game.

umm, i wasn't even talking to you?...

Its also worth noting that other than the sniper. Most classes can geto ut of a tank ambush if their not stupid. Assasain can dash backwards and be out of range almost isntantly. Gunner can slam then minirape you. Assault just backpeddles and shreads you and the support shotguns you twice and your dead (more or less).

All your doing is insulting my 'skill' over and over again with absolutely no proof of anything. Im actually pretty good at this game and guess what, everyone else is saying the tank needs something else. That the tank is crap compared to a gunner/assault. If you dont have trouble with these kind of things you must be playing against idiots most of the time.

Thing with the 'player skill' argument. If a good tank comes up against a good anything else the tank will loose. You have to be a good tank vs and average something to win. Even then its questionable

Im sick of that idiot so, what are your thoughts? How do you think the tank needs to be altered, more damage? More health? More range? Or simply reducing gunner damage? Right now I see no advantage of taking the tank over the gunner tbh

I'm sick of these idiot too, now read my edit.

Oh and LOL at the "I wasn't even talking to you" comment, you do realize this is a PUBLIC forum right? If you want a private converstation do it in a PM, otherwise I'm going to respond to what people say, get over it.

Very good points. I was saddened looking in the patch notes to see the tank wasnt getting any love at all. At the moment Im half giving up on tank and using the assault, whos like a tank but better in every way. Assasains can one hit you but its hard for them to, you have the charge grapple, which whilst hitting for less damage is still a large chunk of damage and a large throw distance and your AR does jet gun damage at range. Win win

The other thing iv been wondering is this. Why can assasains not one hit backstab you but snipers 1 hit headshot you. I always counted them as basically the same thing (huge spike damage vs 1 target) but just for different play styles

As for Tank change, the jet gun needs to be one the highest damaging gun in the game to have any incentive of it being used, he needs to be able to outdamage all ranged weapons if he gets in the jet gun's intended range, end of story. That said even if it's damage is brought up barely higher than the duel minigun, the Tank still has to deal with sneaking up on someone WITHOUT invisibility, a skill in and of itself, and it's already required for the Tank to be effective so it's not a huge overhaul. It shouldn't be a one hit kill because that's not his niche, but it should be outdamaging weapons with any ranged capabilities, hell I would be willing to give up a tiny bit of the Tank's health for a dps increase being added to the passive skill.

Also, as the Jetgun is a point blank range weapon, he needs to be able to actually chase down opponents who know he's there. The Tank needs much more mobility to even be able to ambush compitent players, and he should be rewarded for that if he is required to ambush. Either decrease the cooldown on charge's max level or from endorsments, or increase his default movement speed. I'm more for the cooldown decrease myself since it's arguably more difficult to use yourself as a projectile than spray and pray, see Team Fortress 2's W+M1 pyro.


And there you have it folks, an ambush class that's actually useful against competant players and can still be countered by keeping him at range.

Incoming QQs from people who only play ranged classes about how this would make the tank OP in 3, 2, 1...

lol reduce the 6s cooldown (faster with skill regen)? then i wouldnt even have to use a gun as a tank id just charge once then right as the stun ends charge again cuz it has such a high damage output.

also the jetgun is not point blank it is short range sure hte tip doesnt do that much damage but a spin on sum1 just within range will still take half of their health.

i agree that the jet gun should definitely out dps the dual minigun especially since the gunner has an auto tank kill button (slam)

also why sneak when u got so much health that u can survive long enough to charge twice to get into range

Why is everyone ignoring the rail gun, one of the best weapons in the game. 3 shots on most snipers/assassins, 4-5 on assaults and supports, 5-6 on gunners, and 7-8 on other tanks. It has infinite range and you don't have to put yourself in any type of danger to use it. It even shoots THROUGH the damn wall if you corner shoot. Stop trying to use the jet gun. You'd think people would be smart enough to realize that slowest movement speed and close range weapon don't go too well together.
Tank is one of the best classes if used properly. I play at the highest level of competition and a good tank with his railgun will dominate the map. A sniper is his only threat, and only a good sniper that can land a headshot. The tank will land 4 body shots before you can land 6.

It's 6.5 seconds without the gold recharge, 4.5 with, not to mention the knockdown only lasts for a fraction of a second. The only reason I'm saying a minor decrease the charge cooldown is because he is currently the slowest class in the game and his main movement ability is tied to his burst damage ability. He NEEDS to be able to catch opponents when they start back peddling, or at the very least he needs more time to be in Jetgun range before someone does run away. My other suggestion was to increase the Tank's run speed, but I could see the MLG elitists saying that would make Tanks an EZMOAD class (they're wierd like that for some reason).

The tank's health gets eaten away incredibly fast from automatic weapons since he has a large hitbox and all the bullets register, not to mention as I said before, all the health in the world won't matter if you can't reach your target, hence slow movement speed and charge being your damage and movement all rolled into one.

Naming the jetgun's range is not so much as important as labeling it for what it is, a close range weapon with mediocre damage wielded by a slow class, aka, ****. I've noticed that close range weapons in shooters tend to favor more of a risk and reward playstyle, but with the Jetgun it's risk and LAWL BACKPEDDLE.

@Shaman, the rail gun is much harder/impossible to use in comparison to every other ranged weapon, and all classes except the Gunner and Tank, the regular sized classes can just bunny hop and straft to avoid getting killed by it. I honestly can only recall being killed by the RG a few times as a Gunner, but that's it.