Ideas on how to balance the sniper

I am mainly a Tank player and I don't think the Sniper needs a nerf. Well except for maybe one tiny nerf. Explosive rounds should not activate of off allies. I mean everything else in the game shoots through allies, except Pro fire aka friendly fire. Friendly fire doesn't go through me.

Just wait until the overall skill level of players becomes greater, that's when the "Assault is OP" posts will come out and play. Even though I am a "Uber" fanboy I can admit the Assault needs a slight nerf somewhere.

You're serious? Pretty much every other class beats the sniper at close range.

The Assault has charge, bomb, his assault rifle beats the SMG, and he has more health to boot.

The Tank has charge and his jetgun, can survive an headshot, and his jetgun kills pretty much anything in close range.

The Gunner has the slam, and both mortars or the minigun will both completely shred the sniper at that point.

At close range, the support's shotgun will maim you, to say nothing of a well placed air strike.

And the assassin is basically tooled just to keep you respawning. Lunge+grapple can be done over traps and will insta-kill you even if you have full health and gold armor, smoke bombs can be used to jump over obstacles and straight on the sniper.

What it's not is a close deal. The sniper still has a fighting chance, much like you still have a fighting chance at long range. Which is why you need to learn to play.

First of all, I'm gonna call "pics or didn't happen" of consistent 62-2 scores. First because I think you're bsing on ever getting that score (though it's possible) because from everything you say, you sound like an extremely incompetent player on all counts. Second, because even if you did, I'm fairly certain these aren't consistent. Anyone can be stacked against an incompetent team, cause I can guarantee that if you were playing against good players, with balanced teams, you wouldn't go 62/2 with any class, any time.

And this is the kind of absurd statement that makes me believe you are incredibly incompetent.

TF2 players also don't have this kind of firepower, skills or maps. Nobody can grapple. Spies are a lot more luck reliant, a lot less reliable. The heavy doesn't have a large range high damage AoE weapon to keep you pined. On top of that, it's a lot easier to aim on TF2, as the scope is far less restrictive, making quickscopes a lot easier.

ANY gun in CS will kill you in a wink. The Scout will one-hit on an headshot, and 2 hit on body shots. It reloads very fast and it also makes you much more mobile than anyone else barring knife wielding. The AWP one hit kills you ANYWHERE.

Never played Global Agenda, so I can't comment, but you make it sound fairly useless.

Also the fact that you're comparing fundamentally different games, with fundamentally different mechanics, means you really have no idea how this works.

My most played classes are Sniper, Assassin and Gunner. I also play "healthy" amounts of every other class. I have little issues dealing with Snipers.

Ever considered that it's not the class, maybe it's you. So, again, "Learn to Play". Words I shall, apparently, summon endlessly.

@ DeadStretch: The only problem I have with assault is how the Bomb is the only area of denial tool that can NOT be removed in any fashion except at the behest of the owner (when it's exploded).

Sniper's freeze traps can be triggered by explosions. Support's Air Strike is timed and will hit after a second or so. Support's Firebase can be destroyed. The Assault's bomb is the only tool that can't be destroyed in any way... Which gives them a rather unnecessary advantage - they can permanently block a pathway with no way for it to be disabled outside of a "sacrifice". Given how fast you can reuse the lvl 3 bomb, that's a problem, IMO.

My first game as gunner, I had 70+ kills. If you can't put up those numbers with any other class, that says more about you then sniper.

I'm not gonna bother trying to prove anything to you. I never said consistently though. I always get good scores, but that high is ultra rare. It's simply an example of a score a mediocre sniper can achieve. Good snipers will top that by a longshot.

Calling me incompetent is about as pointless as me calling you a 300kg woman with moustache. You haven't played against me or seen me play, trying to insult me based on a few forum posts is sad.

The comparision between snipers in different games was mostly useless, but one point stands. The targets in MNC are slow AND big, so they are also easy to hit.

In all seriousness, these theoretical arguements about theoretical scenarios could go on forever. But mark my words, snipers will keep dominating pubs until something is done, and it has nothing to do with people not adapting. Even if people do adapt to staying behind cover 90% of the time, is that really the kinda gameplay you want from this game? It's supposed to be fast paced.

Also, I'm calling at least 2 snipers in most high end competitive teams, should this game ever go competitive for real.

My god, this topic is such a waste of time.

Ever heard of good players? Yes, believe it or not they do acually exist in all types of games.
MNC has created this game in a way like Rock, Paper, scissors. For eg. Tank > sin > sniper > gunner > (maybe assault?) anyway it seems like this is the basic outline of it.
Just because youve come across good players who play sniper, doesnt mean in any way theyre OP... Hell, ive seen tank go 40-0, assault even higher. Bottom line is you just havent seen them yet.

Oh btw, there will be alot more threads like this when people own people as a certain class. First it was assassin, now sniper...ill guess assault next

Except that I'm a sniper myself, a bad sniper at that, but yet in this game, I can dominate. CSS? No way. TF2? Nope. GA? Definately not. I have nothing against good players dominating bad players. The thing is, a sniper doesn't have to be good to dominate.

Wow, ok where do i begin. Why are people comparing snipers in mnc to other games? Just because they have the same class name, does not infact mean they are EXACTLY the same. FYI, CS is a first person shooter, i dont know how you can even consider cs and mnc similar...
You are probably vsing gunners and very bad players if what you are saying is true.
If no one bothers me while im sniping ill get a very big score, if im vsing people with half a brain that are trying to shut me out of the match then my score will be reduced.
Im pretty sure your not the first one to play a class for the first time and dominate...this doesnt mean the class is OP, it means the other team is bad, or the person playing is naturally skilled.

Play better players. Anyone can dominate bads.

Sniper could always do with a bit of tweaking. He got nerfed for PC but only until we experiment can we determine for sure reducing the clip size is sufficient to balance him.

IMO, I think the bolt-action idea was fairly good from Uber, but maybe in the wrong order.

e.g. Quick-scope -> Forced to unscope with bolt-action -> Quick-scope.

Now this would have the benefit of forcing a sniper to re-acquire his aim for bodyshot spam, which promotes good snipers who headshot first, or take a small time to acquire a headshot instead of just spamming high-damage rounds with high accuracy.

However, I was wondering how it might be if quick-scoping was nerfed by forcing the sniper to put that eye lens thing on before scoping as shown in the trailers like so:

e.g. brief animation (half a second, makes whole view zoomed like how it is if you die while scoped and you still have incredible zoom without the crosshair) -> Scope and no need to unscope.

That will stop hip-to-scope firing instant headshotters and bring the skill level down a mo but still give room for bad or unlucky snipers to bridge the gap with bodyshots. Could also allow higher mobility classes more room to breathe in comparison to slower classes defining the sniper as a counter more rather than an all-purpose anti-pro. I'm not sure though, what do you guys think?

i dont know why this is worth the flame. no, a mediocre sniper cant get a high score. if you cant aim the damn gun, you dont get a good score at all. snipers have to have a lot of practice and/or skill to get 30 kills a game. and then their skill cap kicks in. once a sniper gets good at headshots, its hard to do too much else. and then when they play against a competent enemy that wont make it easy for a sniper, he is made kind of useless (the gunner could do his job). the beauty is, the sniper can also push bots. however, the sniper can not kill turrets. THIS IS THE ESSENCE OF PROPER GAME BALANCE.

gunner = armor. sniper = range. both use different means, both have same level of safety. neither are invincible.

gunner = minigun. sniper = rifle. both are high damage, just with different effective ranges and rates.

sniper = AOExplosion Rounds. Gunner = mortar. both useful over a range, one kills bots while the other kills turrets...

and that last point carries something to think about. if you take away the sniper's ability to kill bots, what do you have? even MORE juicing assassins in the bot lanes.

he could use a small nerf on rate of fire maybe and only because snipers are better at aiming quicker on computer. maybe a larger nerf if his explosive rounds also did a little more damage, or if his sniper rifle killed bots in one headshot. or, the guy's idea above sounds like a good change, it would make it a little more distracting and difficult to scope and spray.

HOWEVER, if his nerf is too big, your just going to have to nerf something else, and nerf and nerf away at everything. pretty soon, everybody is going to be back at square one. go to my counter class thread in this subforum if you think he is overpowered. then come back here and tell me your not blowing smoke up my *** (cuz i rather not have *** cancer) when you say that the sniper is hands-down the best class and undefeatable by any other classes.

Tbh the quickscope delay your talking about wouldnt be a nerf. In cod you HAVE to wait until you see the crosshair before shooting for an acurate shot which im fine for uber to do that. 0.5-1 seconds for you to see the crosshair would be a good idea. But as i said before, it wouldnt be much of a nerf for people who know how to quickscope. But yes it would seperate the bads from the goods a bit.

I read your post on counter classes.

So let's see. In order to make comparisions like the ones you made, we must assume everyone is at a similiar level of skill. At skillcap, a sniper can quickscope consistently from any distance - close or far. So basically he can OHKO at any distance. I'd say that takes him well above any other classes "tier". Comparisions like this are pointless in a game like MNC.

Again, you can't really use "play against better players" as a balance arguement when a vast majority of games are played in pubs. I'm not a good enough player to carry my team in pubs, but the sniper class allows me to do that. I don't have amazing aim, I don't have years of practice behind me, I'm a really casual player. Yet the only class that can consistently shut me down is another sniper, provided that he is as good as me or better.

How would it not be a nerf? A nerf is something that makes a class less powerful. Taking away the ability to headshot in 0.1 seconds would be a nerf.

It would be a pretty pointless nerf though. Headshots are fine. Quickscopes take skill.

What does not take skill is spamming a full clip of bodyshots into a gunner, or just spamming a full clip around his head area hoping for a headshot. Nerfing sniper ROF would make a lot more sense, it would allow good snipers to keep their headshot kills and not really change anything for them, while stopping bad players from bodyshotting gunners to death.

How is aiming in a FPS any different from aiming in a TPS? Especially as a sniper? Newsflash: MNC sniper scopes to first person.

if he is computer perfect, he cant ohko MOST any enemy.

still, he cant hit ones he cant see, he can only spray explosive rounds. a team of tanks and assassins and assaults would beat a sniper of the same skill. the best sniper in the game would lose to the best assault, the best assassin probably, and occassionally the best tank if the tank can do turrets better than the sniper (1v1). and a team of only snipers and 2 supports wouldnt win against a team of a tank, assassin, assault, GUNNER, and 2 supports (albeit the gunner would just die constantly)

im going to make a new post, seeing as those raging against snipers can do it i feel like i deserve the right as well.

and they NERFED quickscoping on CoD BECAUSE people were practicing so much that it was getting overpowered at every range. i used to play with one of those quickscopers, headshots at any range instantly 60% of the time. thats IMPOSSIBLY good, but i can play through the fire and flames on expert so i understand muscle memory's capability. point is, a delay between both aiming and firing rounds would possibly be the fix we need.

Like i said "It wouldnt MUCH of a nerf" of course its a nerf, but its not much of one, it really wouldnt bother the better players.

To one of your other posts. You said you cant play better players because its pub and that your a bad player but roll ppl as sniper. Well you just said it, your playing PUB!! of course pub is going to be full of bad players...

Im also going to assume you play Gunner most of the time considering your raging about gunners being slow and snipers body shot spamming you. Well i have news for you, snipers destroy gunners, its the way it is. Just like a good sin destroy snipers.
As i said before, its pretty much based on a rock paper scissor system.

You then say that snipers can quickscope you from a distance. Well if snipers are doing that then they are obviously a skilled player. That does not make snipers OP. And once you get killed by a sniper, you should always be on the look out for him, trying to avoid him or trying to close in. If you blatantly walk in his LoS again, its your own fault.
I have had soooo many people keep walking into my LoS after ive killed them once before (in the same spot). If they do this then i laugh at them because they are feeding me kills.

People just need to learn how to deal with them. Just like when mnc first came out aswell as all the "sins are too OP" threads. Most people know how to deal with assassins now, and now they arent as big of a threat.

There is an inherent 200ms delay between scoping and being able to score it as headshot. It's a fix Valve implemented to make quickscoping harder.

Quickscoping is easier in MNC.

I can score consistent wins playing any class, what does that say about balance? nothing.

What does it say about the quality of the general player? They don't know how to defend.

Hate the player, not the game.

It is incredibly different. Totally different feel to it. I was a very good quickscoper in cod...but i wasnt instantly pro at mnc sniping. It took me a while to get use to it. All im saying is comparing a game like cs (which mind you have so many different elements to mnc) to mnc is just stupidand will not prove your point at all.

Proof? You can say that the best assault in the game would beat the best sniper in the game. You can say that comp x would beat comp y. But do you have any proof to back up your claims?

I'm not saying sniper is a god class. Snipers can be killed. I just think that killing players as a sniper takes way too little effort compared to any other class. No matter how good you are at tank, gunner, assault, assassin or support, you still have to get reasonably close to your target (unless you kill them with nades, mortar or whatever, but that's not nearly as effective as sniping.)

I almost never play gunner. I just feel sorry for the ones I kill.

Grimbar, as much as I want to just consider the sniper balanced and think of myself as a great player, I just can't. We could play 1v1 and you'd probably win by around 20-1. But when I play sniper in pubs, I stomp kids. It's all about the class.

And again, I saw someone use competitive play as an arguement. MOST PLAYERS NEVER GET TO EXPERIENCE IT. Games should be balanced around the general population, not the 5% elite. Against the general population, sniping is OP.

And Smaz - I have never been a good sniper at any game, and still I find MNC sniping easy as hell, and not much different from the games at which I was bad, other than the fact that my targets are now big and slow.

Anyway, I'm out. Happy arguing, let's try to keep it civil.

Guys im just throwing this out there as a thought...

The mentality of gamers is, and has always been "This class is to powerful at this job, lets nerf it and bring it down to our level" yet the biggest complaint seems to be that gunners are to easily killed by snipers, i wont mention tanks because if you cant use charge to get through the LoS or railgun and product grenade to supress the sniper, then you deserve to be killed...

However, instead of screaming rage at the sniper, why are people not crying out for the gunner to be buffed? A slight mobility increase on the gunner is far easier to add into the game without smashing game balance, it dosent have to do damage or even be a skill, simply a way for gunners to get out of sniper fire, or get across LoS areas safely...

This would allow good snipers who go for headshots to keep getting kills, whilst punishing the bad players who just spam explosive shots everywhere as after the first shot hits the gunner jets in behind cover.

You dont want to make the gunner impossible to kill because they are at the end of the day, the class that snipers counter, but making the required skill to kill them a little higher wouldnt have to many adverse effects imo.


Really, we should try to change the mentality of "BROKEN NERF IT!" instead of actually looking at the problem as a whole and finding a fix.