Idea for balancing the Sniper

I shoot people in the head and they die bitches! And I like it! I like it very much! LG FTW! Or shall I say AA FTW!

FLAK:
Useful for scrambling targets and if somebody stays in the FLAK DoT they deserve to die for not thinking of moving away. A smart player would pull away, same thing with a gunner. Get to close, he'll smash and you'll be turned into swish cheese.
Sniper: Get to close, the sniper throws a flak and pulls out his SMG firing loose, but you are still stubborn enough to get the sniper you think you can survive standing inside a FLAK, but end up taking the punishment for your bad actions.

MINES:
You got to pay more attention to where you're going. It's not the snipers fault you are not cautious and aware of your surroundings enough to spot a blue bright mine on the ground. Or orange should it be orange. These are things people learn to avoid as im sure most players are aware: Around a sniper there is freezetraps. As you say they have stun mines, but they last for TWO seconds and if the sniper is quick enough to turn around and headshot you, he probably earned the right to do so since you walked into his trap anyways. It's not like it's unbalanced considering you had the choice NOT to walk into it, you just didn't know it.

GRAPPLE:
... So we can interrupt grapples now huh? That would have been useful against constant backstabbing assassins. :roll:

CLASS A:
Are you refering to the Sniper?
Anyways, i've said this before and i'll say it again:
If you don't learn from your mistakes and repeatedly walk into a snipers line of sight, then you deserve to get shot over and over for being such a free kill. If the enemy team has you pinned in spawn, then theres not much you can do anyway, that's just how unbalanced teams are. A team needs to BALANCE their classes, if theres already a sniper on the team, go something that the team doesnt have. I found out I could play Tank and Support as my secondaries should sniper be busy, and it turns out just fine. If you get repeatedly headshot then the sniper is either really good or you are really easy to predict.

TO BALANCE!!! :evil: :
... So headshots only take effect during grapple range, is that what you're saying? Do you know how stupid this suggestion is? It's not even a suggestion its just a wish to nerf solely to make yourself not die by the once in a while sniper. I think this suggestion is solely based on your annoyance for capable snipers and doesn't even serve as a possible good suggestion. I understand people want to go "SNIPER! Get down here and fight like a man!!!"
But lets compare sizes here:
Gunner
Sniper
Who wins in a close range battle? Really? Who does? I don't know do you? :roll:
OBVIOUSLY: The Gunner. However if the sniper is skilled enough to quickscope headshot him before the gunner gets him, he deserves to get the kill for having the skill to do so and that should not be used as material to nerf the class just because gunners are "Supposed to be the only class" thats a monster up close. Don't quote me on that last one as all classes are dangerous up close, im just saying the sniper CAN be although he is the most dangerous at long range.

What bothers me is that everyone wants the Sniper nerfed despite saying he's such a useless team player.

wow, nice post

just for the record, i haven't found snipers to be very OP in the actual game(i'm assault, i just jump up to them and kill), i'm just pointing out, that once people get good, he SHOULD be very OP, since he CAN be very OP

as for the flak, cool, you just told me it was a very usefull area denial, i totally agree

for the mines, again, you nicely explain they are usefull

as for the grapple, thats what i got out of the 360 forum, if you can't interrupt then ill take that part back, didn't know that was different for pc

then, on your reply to my class A part, you basically say that if i go anywhere where the sniper can see.. i deserve to die? WTF? i mean... thats just OP right there... i need not say anymore

(but i will)

so here, you say... the gunner should win... but then you go... if the sniper has enough skill, he wins!!! wtf? you just said gunner should win on close range, yet if sniper is good enough, he wont! (and he cant turn the tables by being an insane gunner/other class either, its only unlimited potential for the sniper)

and thats exactly what i mean by imbalancedness. true we might not see it in games much yet, but that doesn't mean the potential isn't there, ready and waiting

also, i never said nerf it to grapple range
i said nerf the OHKO damage, so that it can only OHKO on distances like lunge+grapple or airstrike throwing distance or bomb throwing distance, because they are the other OHKO mechanisms in this game

Let's break up your post shall we?

Thanks

Great way to contradict youself. You say they are OP yet as stated several times before, they are easily disposed of. Your basis for the post is THEN that you want it nerfed because a better player than you get's a headshot on you.

Indeed it's a great means of escape should players come too close, you sound like you want us to freeze up the moment someone get close to make us easy kills. Trying to imbalance the game?

Good thing you're catching up. So what you basically mean is that you want them to NOT be useful and make them useless to further degrade our powers of self-defense up close? I thought this was about headshots.

I don't think we have ever been able to interrupt a grapple even on the 360, it has happened once or twice to me, but that was due to LAG, so I suspect same happened to you.

No, stop turning my post around that was not what I said.
What I basically said is that if you make yourself a target at long range (go out in the open), then your chances of survival in the end depends on your dodging skills and the snipers aim. Assaults have no trouble with this as their grenade launcher pretty much fires straight forward and deals huge amounts of damage, and as you said you are an assault player so I don't see the problem. Assaults are like born to deal with all classes effectively, especially snipers.

Okay

Yes. Basically. But it's not totally black and white as you state it to be. Sure if the gunners run straight at the sniper guns blazing and the sniper notices, then it will be VERY easy to headshot the opponent (comparing my skill now), however if a gunner starts strafing, jumping, evading, I won't get a headshot and i'll rather be DEAD in a manner of seconds. Again it's player vs player, skill vs skill. If the opponent can dodge headshots, the sniper won't win. If the sniper is an insanely good sniper and headshots all the time I'd suspect him for using AA, but if he doesn't then he's just a really good player. It all ends up with a players skill, this is no "OMGWTF H3s a Sniper!#%^@^He's automatically overpowered!"

I said the Gunner SHOULD win if the pages were all black and white, considering his up close damage is insane and chunks away all the snipers HP in less than a second. IF the sniper manages to turn around and headshot in less than a second, then he just is that good and should be rewarded for it, not punished by taking that away.

(Sigh) :|
Moving on.

Exactly, and if the potential is there, don't bash the player for being good and cry for a nerf. It's like this in all FPS games nowadays, you should've gotten used to it by now.

My bad then.

... So instead of having us actually be effective at long range you want us to be MORE effective at mid-range to draw snipers in to make them easier to kill? That sounds like a bad excuse to draw snipers into the fight of Assaults, Gunners and Tanks if you ask me. Do you know why the sniper zoom is so extreme? It's to make it hard to make accurate shots on shorter ranges. A sniper running suicide missions up close is not an effective sniper, that's either a really good quick-shooter or a fool or he's just keeping bots off his teammates asses ETC.

Learn from your mistakes and adapt, become smart and think out a plan to take them out. Be flexible, there's always ways to take out a sniper easily. :roll:

This was right before jetpacks nerf. Now things have totally changed, and lack of mobility makes us gunners a perfect target for snipers. They were not a problem at all for me before that, now I find they are too overpowered vs gunners (or rather, gunners have become too underpowered vs them).

I don't know about gunners as I never play them. I play Tank, Support and Sniper mainly. But I believe although their jetpack was nerfed their ability to jump was not, and even so a gunner doesn't need much time before he has chewed through a sniper at close range. Long range is another case.

EDIT:
Btw a friendly tip: Use your mortar should a sniper see you at long range, use your mortar. It hurts us a lot and makes a smart sniper pull back. Especially if it is mortar 3. You just need to hit first.

Thanks for the tip, but I always use mortar at long range vs snipers

I've played gunner a lot since the first release of this game, and when I say a lot, it's like 80% of the time. The nerf has not only impacted jetpacks, but also the way we gunners jump. Now, when our jetpack is empty, we will make only ridiculously small jumps, kinda feel like we are impacted by a huge gravity.

Gunner's main strength was not only his guns, but also his mobility with jetpacks. You would go really faster by using them, and could escape most of risky situations. Which is not the case anymore. That's kind of why I think they have become underpowered vs snipers (I'm talking about the smart snipers, who will stay at a decent range of our miniguns and who will know the exact tempo to avoid mortar shots).

I see, my bad I thought jumping remained unnaffected. Why did they nerf the jumping and not just the jetpack cooldown? Jumping could've stayed the same.

Did Gunners actually jump to begin with? I believe that their "jump" was their jetpack to begin with.

ok, the conversation continues

yes, i have stated it was potentially OP, and although i haven't seen players good enough yet, (which you seem to think is a contradiction, not sure why) i do think it should at least be looked at by devs

as for the flak & mines, i was simply stating how usefull the skills are, in comparison to say, gunner? (like, if sniper has all usefull skills, + an extremely good main gun... wheres the downside)

ok, sure enough, i may have misunderstood, but then even according to what you just said, if i go out into the "open" (which i understand is relative, dont worry) is that it depends on dodging and aim, right?

well in that case, that still means that as soon as someone is in line of sight of the sniper, he's in fighting range... even... OHKO range.. whereas EVERY other class, can't say the same

as for the gunner and sniper up close example, well.. you basically admitted i'm right there under the proper circumstances right? (like extremely good sniper > all on any range)

ok now this is just wrong... you're telling me that because other games have flaws, i should just accept this flaw as one of the many? also not even noting the fact that the games are different and/or would require different mechanisms to work?

also... the "if the potential is there, dont bash the player?" i'm not bashing players here.. i'm solely bashing on a class, for the single reason, that i think it has more potential then any other class in this game (which equals unbalance, no?)

as for the balance idea, i'm not saying they shouldnt be effective on long range, even if they can't OHKO they'll still be the most effective class on range...

also, zoom being extreme, i think is a silly argument, since it zooms in to the middle of the screen, where all guns point at, really... i mean.. come on

always

You're right, jetpacks was their only jump. With the nerf on it, they can't use any sort of "jetpacks jump replacement".

The way jump was nerfed has changed the way I play Gunner completely. I'm now testing a different approach, so far with mixed results.

I have one question for the Snipers:
You all seem to agree that the Sniper deserves a one-hit kill when he has the skill to pull it off. You like to point to the Assassin who can OHK as well out of cloak.

Would you agree that a full hit of a level 3 mortar shot should kill you instantly?

Because I think that would be fair. The mortar rounds are slow, they can be dodged easily at long range. It takes skill and practice to hit a small target at long range with a weapon that has a crosshair that's of little use. And a Gunner has to stand out in the open to fire a mortar shot, he is an easy target for every Sniper.

I cannot quite agree on comparing sneaking up to somebody and well placed hitscan shots to a projectile weapon that you can lob over obstacles.

Your point stands about it being easy to dodge but it's also easy to connect it.

Breaking it down.

Sure does.

Then why are you complaining?

I'll make it clear to you.
Compare this entire post:

To this post:

First you make an entire post about how he is OP, then you state that he isn't OP because you are playing Assault. Hence the contradiction.

Well, okay.

Now this is something I can compare. Considering a Gunner already has two useless skills. One being his grapple which is a SKILL ffs, he shouldn't have a skill as a grapple since he hardly has any mobility and for close encounters its only useful if your minigun and smash radius is on cooldown, it's a last resort thing that is never used and if you ever get to see a gunner grapple make sure you catch it on tape, because I rarely even see a gunner grapple someone. It's deploy skill 3 is useless as it doesn't work obviously.

So comparing a sniper to a gunner is a bad choice, as the gunner really needs a second look compared to the sniper. He has two skills he uses and that's the passive and the smash, the other skills are only useful in extremely specific situations.

Pretty much yeah, for both sides.

Lies. Tanks can use their railgun, Gunners use their mortar, Assaults use their grenade launchers and Assassins use their shurikens or simply cloak by him. The only ones who are not in fighting range is the Support, and he has the opportunity to not even move out of base and simply hack a long shot turret to control the whole map.

Same goes for any other class. Tell me do you believe snipers are the only ones capable of dominating? Because it really sounds that way. To be playing as an assault you must have been standing still quite a bit if you hold such a grudge against snipers. As mentioned before the deadliness of a class is NOT determined by it, but the player in control.

Oh so it's a flaw and that's why every sniper in every game has a headshot mechanism that one hit kills... That's a flaw? That's why every game does it? Do you honestly think it's a game FLAW? Stick with the times and review the past games that's been released the last 10 years and you'll see every sniper rifle capable of headshooting their target to one-shot death. All snipers in most games have the same mechanism and purpose: Aim and Shoot. Hit the head, Target drops dead.

As if this can't be said about the Assault. Your charge grapples, your area denying ring-out bombs and your jetpacks, critical hits and jump height? Well I won't get into that. Each class has a different profession. What about the word SNIPER do you not understand? He is a Precision Shooter. Dig it into your mind and let it stick and perhaps you'll get the general idea. His skills has nothing to do with headshots and you're moving on to those, mines have already been nerfed once, flak is probably next. If you want skills nerfed say so! But headshots are there to stay as it's part of the fun and the very trademark of a sniper in general.

Snipers are pretty much relying on headshots. A good player is so quick to duck behind cover and are constantly moving sniping is no longer such an easy job. New players still have yet to understand what's going on before they realized they were just shot, that's a difference.

It's a silly argument and you're not going to point out why? ''Come on '' does not count as a valid reason to say that. Yes, all guns point to the middle of the screen, but the more you zoom in the faster the target moves and the slower you TURN. Try aiming at a gunner strafing right infront of you, then come back and say it's easy to hit.

Hmmmm... :|

If you are thinking about 1 out of the 3 mortar rounds directly connecting to the target, yes I agree to this. Currently I find that mortar only hurts ONCE, but by then I'm quick enough to move out of the way it doesn't even hit me directly, and leading mortar rounds is probably no easy feat to achieve concerning their traveling speed, so a second connection would be hard if not impossible for a gunner. Depending on his skill of course.

You mean it's easier to hit a small, probably moving target like the Sniper with a slow mortar projectile and no crosshair than trough a high-precision scope with hitscan?

If you are concerned that a Gunner can lob a mortar shot over a wall, I'll just repeat what the Snipers told me: Stay out of the line of fire!

That's my problem: If I hit you perfectly you will have to move 15 feet and wait a few seconds. If you hit me I wake up in the spawn room, no second chances.

A second hit would basically be pure luck. I can't tell in which direction you will move and my second round will be fired on pure speculation. If you see it coming you have enough time to move out of it's path.

In Fact I do believe it is easier based on a number of factors.

1) latency
2) splash damage
3) predictability in positioning

Mind you when I'm on fire I rarely miss headshots, no matter the range, but I don't have trouble taking out Snipers using the mortar. (one of those pesky multiclass guys)

Having seen a multitude of the people I'd propose that before you bring forth suggestions I'd rather see people don't base balance assumptions around those very few who do excel at what they do; after all you are supposed to win when you are the superior player and this applies to any class. As all classes have one hit knock out moves except for the tank who truly does not need any more firepower.

Minimise opportunities for the enemy to get you and maximise your opportunities to get him, there is more than one way of dealing with any type of enemy no matter how competent.

I like this, this is true advice.

ok, somehow we're completely talking past each other...

if you wanna keep discussing, i've added you to my friends list, is alot easier and quicker then a forum

At a decent range, by the time the first mortar hits, the second is going to land just as you start reacting to it.

I kill a ton of snipers due to it.

Erm, after what are you going to balance a competitive game else? You can only balance properly with the best players in mind imo. If you would balance the Assassin around the average new player a frontgrapple would have to be an OHK... :lol:

If the Sniper didn't see you and isn't moving, yes, there is a decent chance. However, if you didn't see the Sniper he only needs one shot.

My example was supposed to show the asymmetry of a Gunner Sniper encounter.