I'd like to blame Uber, but I think it's our fault.

The more I read from Patch, the more I wonder why he plays MNC at all.

Finally, something of substance on which to comment.

* Many changes that were suggested are what happened: As had been stated multiple times, merely making suggestions doesn't make them reality. Uber simply evaluates various things with the game and uses its player suggestions as one part of that. All that really matters is how balanced the game will be.

* Juice dispensers: I think that's been covered by now. It's less powerful than it used to be. I think it would be appropriate to give them timers equivalent to the Annihilator rather than about half, but I don't really care either way.

* Turrets: I agree with you that there is simply no good reason to build lasers. I've made a thread dedicated to this and many good suggestions have been made. If it became more of a status changer than vitality damager, it could be reasonable. I love that rockets are now cheaper. Offering a $350 discount to get that level 3 makes it realistic to achieve. Lasers, being more expensive now, should've received something to compensate. At least the taunt-juice thing seems like it'll be going away.

* Support is far from obsolete. I understand Uber's theorized that a "good" Support can farm churros, but I think a statement like that is missing the entire point. The juice nerf is reasonable, since it's really easy for a juiced Support to wreck things. His juice wasn't breaking the game, but I can get behind the idea that he should have a difficult time getting aggressive.

* Endorsement reveal: "Mystery" is absolutely a non-issue for me, and the "copycat" factor actually speeds a player's progress. I have a similar thing with netdecking of TCGs; I want the overall game to reach its highest possible peak as fast as possible. More people copying good builds will lead to more good players (at least they have a solid base), and there will always be rogues that try new things.

* Gazillionaire: Seems more of an afterthought to me. Your comparison of more custom classes or an entirely new system is flawed, because those would take significantly more effort to implement. It's not much effort at all to create a new protag. I get the impression they were looking for extras to fill up the page, considering the ease of Spin-N-Juice and Heck Yeah. Gazillionaire, for minimal effort, recognizes the existence of hardcore players and gives not-so-severe players a visible long-term goal.

* NIMBY: I actually find this to be positive. A firebase is Support's best weapon, and a properly defended firebase in a strong spot is an extremely strong weapon overall. This just gives a little motivation to get people to actually play right. I'd think the same way for rewarding the Assassin lunging through freeze traps.

* Evolution: If you can't see the game is evolving, you simply aren't paying attention. When we say the game is evolving, we don't mean the code. We are referring to the way people are playing it. The code of the game can impact this significantly, but at the end of the day, it's how we the players are using it that dictates what this game really is.

After addressing all of this line-by-line, I'd like to take this opportunity to plug something that's not even mine. Read Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion by David Sirlin. When people play to win, it forces us to discover just how deep a game really is beyond just what's labeled for us. Playing to win is a whole different kind of "fun," because it's a path of self-improvement. I bring this up because the complaints coming from Patch are really borderline scrub arguments. Saying this game has just become team deathmatch sounds very much like a sentiment David Sirlin says he expressed in his earlier days of Street Fighter 2. He saw it as a shallow game because he believed grabs were absolutely the best moves to use and it really wasn't worth playing. He learned the game was deeper than that when he started playing against real competition, and I'm sure that anyone looking at truly competitive MNC play would conclude similarly.

Spunky Cola: Bot control and defending your bot spawners is important on this map unless you want Juiced Assassins or Tanks running through your base every few minutes, so I disagree with your idea of it being a purely Slayer map. I find this map an excellent contrast to "long" levels like Ammo Mule and, to a lesser extent, Steel Peel.

Juice dispensers: I disagree with the idea that if the Juice was on team-specific counters that would solve the problem of spawn camping. Spawn campees rarely have enough money to buy Juice. I think that Juice should increase in cost (500-750-1000) every time you use it - that would prevent Juice-chaining and make people much more careful about when they use it. Team-specific counters would be nice, but not as a spawn-camping fix.

Turrets: These are incredibly difficult to balance. Too powerful and you alienate beginners, too weak and you make them useless. Cheaper Rockits are awesome, and encourage people to purchase Turrets, even if they're getting ripped up regularly. Blazers are getting some of their power back in the next update. I feel they need to be buffed to make them viable again - a LVL3 should shoot further and do more damage than a LVL1 Rockit, but not a LVL2.

Support: I off-class Support, and strongly disagree with your points here. I think that the Airstrike nerf was unneeded - and I didn't see much call for it on the forums - but I've adapted. He's a Support - he should be in behind the big boys, keeping them alive and locking the level down with his Firebase. He's still the best counter to the enemy Firebase, and his Shotgun still hurts like a beeatch. Adapt or die, my friend. Replace him with a second Assault? Really? Gapshots have been buffed, a hacked 3.3 Rockit is now almost a standard sight even in pubs, and you think the Support is a liability? Maybe against unorganised and terribad teams, but not in an equally matched...match.

Endorsements: Every time I see a Sniper with Crit - Health Regen - Speed I sigh, and hope that they get schooled by a well-built Sniper. It's an educational tool, and a good one at that.

Gazillionaire: I'm indifferent to this. Gambling isn't the answer either - gambling so you can win money so you can gamble so you can win money so you can gamble? I don't use most of my Custom Classes, but a few extra would be nice.

NIMBY: Ah now. If anyone with half a brain saw a Firebase deploying, they'd be unloading everything that have at it, whether or not you got a ProTag for it.

ALL-STAR: Eka beat me to the punch on this one.

I don't think further posting is necessary.

It took almost 6 pages before he actually stated his various complaints, this thread is going to go on for quite some time.

Still...

organus your posts lead me to believe you sweat profusely when you play