I am sorry...NERF the sniper

Saying the things that make the class good can make any class broken...

Assaults, Supports, and other Snipers can take out Snipers. Yes it is effortless to get kills but that usually doesn't matter in a game with an objective. Also, if you say you die alot by Snipers, you better be playing a Gunner or a really dumb assassin.

With a gunner, there isn't much you can do. A tank is extremely mobile and can easily stay out of sight of a Sniper unless you are stupid and rush it head on. For the Sins, here is a little tip...QUIT GOING AFTER SNIPERS!

Really, not that difficult. They are great to have on your team as they can easily kill bots and juice up but really, why the hell are you going in range of a Sniper's traps and grapple. If you are going to bitch about this game at least do it by an actual problem. God you guys make the Sniper sound like its an end all game decider. How about you use some damn common sense and everything that you are bitching about will go away. It has the 2nd lowest health out of any class which means 2 shotgun shots, 1 Assault clip, 1 Tank clip, and 1 backstab. Tell me how a rushing Sniper is getting you killed?

I swear every class that you guys claim to be OPis easily dealt with with some well thought out strategy. But hey, what do you expect from Xbox kids. this isn't call of duty, there is actually some teamwork here.

And yes I am aware of the unstoppable **** storm from all the scrubs yelling at me. Can we just go back to yelling about the Support? I honestly liked that a whole lot better.

People go in range of my Sniper traps because I put them in their way. While traps are good as a defence when you're looking down your scope, they're infinitely better as an obstruction in the enemy's direct path. If I see someone I know is going to juice I'll intercept their path with traps so they have to waste time navigating them and usually either die in the process or use it prematurely just to survive. People often die to sniper grapples because the sniper jumped down behind them and punted them to their deaths. Want to hit that annihilator switch? Oops, ice traps and I was waiting in a place with a clear but distant line of sight to the activation platform to pop your now static melon.

It's all very well talking about avoiding a class when it's one of the passive players, but not all players are so static and some will happily take the fight and all their associated problems right to you whether you like it or not.

I can and have decided games with my sniper as one very confused team who had our ball at 15% health can tell you, when their 100% one vanished before they knew what was happening even though the only person missing from our base was my little sniper with a single full juice bar
My ice traps and headshots have turned juice rushes that should have ended the game away and I've also been on the recieving end of a sniper who brought our lanes to a halt with careful positioning and ice trap placement right along the route.

This class offers control in spades like no other. The closest you can get is the support's firebase for remote harrassment/aerial denial and his airstrikes for one-shot kills but I think the sniper is better suited for agile mass deployment of this kind.

All said, however, I don't believe the sniper is a portent of the end of days either. But they certainly do have an edge over most other classes and a lower learning curve to accessing those tools.

Snipers are crying nerf the terrain because we can stand on walls...
They may not need too much of a nerf when this tactic becomes the norm

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2786

Assassins and snipers are upset because bunny hopping nerfs their class. This too will help you avoid snipers.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2772

Wanna know how to balance snipers so they are far more reasonable without making them weak?

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2777

I don't know if I would call the Sniper Rifle itself OP, but that's only because it isn't very useful at close range except against frozen targets, but that's a different issue. I'm more appauled by how much damage their grapple and juiced SMG does, but even then the Sniper has such little health that I hardly find them bothersom when using an Assault Rifle or Minigun.

That said, I played a sniper once, I was dumb struck at how many kills I was getting with just the Sniper Rifle, and I wasn't even scoring headshots. Granted, I was playing against people who hardly used cover, but I still thought it was stupid.

The one thing you are failing to explain to me is, why do you have the advantage over most classes? An assault shouldn't have a problem flying over traps, and a tank can really put pressure on a Sniper with the railgun. Supports can blow up traps, and can easily place an airstike under a Sniper while scoped in. Also, a Sniper rush is extremely easily countered by most classes. And I do understand how much a juice rush can change the game and it is a lame concept but it also applies to Gunners (they get a lot of money and have 2 useless skills, they can buy juice), Supports, and Assassins as well.

What I'm trying to get at is, If you see a Sniper, it should be fairly obvious not to approach. Yes idiots are going to do it anyways and complain but saying the Sniper can take on the majority of classes is just ridiculous.

Also, you people really should start playing against good teams before you make such judgements. You may get good results against randoms but here is a reality check. 95% of randoms are terrible. Having a good k/d in this game doesn't mean **** because the vast majority of people don't know what the hell they are doing. Same in any other XBL game. You have to know good people to play good people.

I would agree to a few tweaks myself, but nothing to drastic. I feel as though there are three big issues that with one minor change would be better off for the game.

1.Traps- The Freeze -> headshot is kind of lame. Taking control away form the player so they can be a sitting duck is not a fun gameplay mechanic. I'm fine with the way freeze traps ensnare bots, but perhaps a freeze time nerf would be in order for just the pros. Perhaps make them more easily destroyable when you shoot at them too.

2. Grapple- I don't mind this because I'm never usually up in a sniper's face, but switching grapples 2 and 3 seems logical.

3. Explosive shot- This is probably my biggest beef with the sniper. He now has a hitscan AOE weapon that does significant damage. You can't hide behind your bots to push anything, and if you are anywhere near the shot the chain reaction can hinder you even if you weren't a target. I love when I happen to get killed by an explosive shot while behind a wall and he hits my buddy, which in turn kills me. Honestly with ROF it becomes a nightmare to push with your bots. It's also frustrating to get hit randomly by the flak as a cloaked assassin. I can't think of a good fix for it though. I can deal with it normally, but it feels like stupid to have splash damage with a precision class. Perhaps only give the effect on headshots? Would that be too much?

The easiest class to get juice is a sniper with the aoe shot. This should probably be tweaked quite a bit.

That and a trap proximity nerf would really put the sniper in line.

Well, the main problem with not approaching a sniper is that they're considerably more effective at range than any other class and they may very well be standing near/on the objective you need to go for, so keeping your distance is rarely practical and often the opposite of what you really need to do to win the game

I have yet to see a Sniper who can pull off headshots every time you leave a corner or be on two sides of the map at once. The fact that you have to put yourself in harms way to get killed by them means that you deserve to get killed. Especially because it's almost impossible to Snipe a fast moving target (Assault/Tank charge) in this game. I can safely walk around 90 percent of most maps knowing that I can't get Sniped and i hardly do.

I don't know what world you live in Goose, but everything you say is simply wrong.

One thing you guys need to remember...

If people rage, they stop playing,
People stop playing, no community,
No community, no game!

The sniper is making people rage. I had to stop playing a sniper because I got tired of people quitting on the other team.

Sniper is by far the easiest class to get high kills, juice up and controlling the other team. Support is the second easiest.

Well actually mortars are quite a good way to counter snipers at long/mid range... The secret is just to move like crazy to avoid head shots and try to get a good aim with the mortar... Snipers are a 2-shot with it

It's a good way of harassing a sniper but I wouldn't do it for too long. Even if you move like crazy it's still possible to luck a headshot, especially with Gold RoF endorsements.

I'll usually do calmly pinpointed fire, but if someone's playing hard to hit I'll usually just aim head-height at the center point of their strafing path (most people dodge left and right a certain amount leaving them travelling through a rough area constantly) and hold down the trigger. It's surprisingly effective as even without headshots you only really need 3 hits to kill :3

Well I'm not sure that 3 hits would kill me on gold armor ? Gotta test this.

Anyways I agree, it's a really nice tool for harassment. If i can make sniper retreat from his sniping point it's always a good thing for the team

fair point, I just noticed I was usually killing gunners in about 3 hits but I'm not sure what endorsements they had. It'll be useful to know exact numbers on these things so lemme know how it goes :3

This is the truth. I had a Gunner consistently make me retreat using the fully upgraded mortars. Of course, if the Sniper can get a headshot, then move before the mortars hit they should be ok.

Basically, the Gunner v Sniper battle is all about skill and is pretty balanced. Which is awesome.


Still, doesn't change the fact that the Sniper's grapple is overpowered for its class.

The problem with the sniper isn't so much that he has one ability or another that is op

But rather he has so many things that work in perfect synergy as well as being very good base skills in their own way

What I mean is

The sniper will destroy you at ALL ranges if played correctly

The trap in itself isn't overpowered, it's the fact that the trap has so many different crippling aspects added to it

First of, once upgrade you get THREE traps
Having 3 at once mean you can become Impervious to assassins while at the same time keeping other classes in your "Safe zone"

Furthermore, each trap is hard to detect (if you place them correctly)
Hard to trigger, even if you CAN as some classes can't
And have a very large trigger radius

On top of this the trap effect lasts so long, that the sniper has time to read the Sunday paper and sip a cup of joe before he saunters over and lines up his free head shot
Even the most terrible sniper in the entire game is going to pop your dome if you are unfortunate enough to step into a trap.

Now...the trap skill is already friggin amazing at this point...but heck..lets just keep going!

You can't use ANY of your skills once you step into a trap, In fact it completely drains them. So even if by some miracle the sniper didn't notice you or somehow missed two shots in a row on a stationary target, you still have to tuck tail and run unless your a gunner because your completely crippled despite now being out of the trap

ok...at this point things are getting out of hand..
BUT THERE IS MORE!

Your grapple is also drained even non-skill grapples
AND the sniper can place MORE traps while your already stuck in one

When you break it down like this I mean...come on guys

And that's just one skill

Add in the fact that his upgraded grapple will outright kill any class other then a tank
And his power at range outshines every other pro in every way while still being a huge threat even at medium range

I have about 900 headshots and 1600 sniper kills
around 300 flak kills and over 1000 smg kills

At this point Ive started to not even play my favorite class anymore, because I already know I'm gonna have an amazing kd and beat almost any other pro in a 1v1 with little effort

Its so easy its lost its fun

But this game isn't about killing pros. It's about destroying the money ball. In my experience, snipers are meant to destroy pros and kill far out bots or turrets. Snipers can't really help push bots forward or singlehandedly win a game. They need support from the other players in order to win.

Easy or difficult pro killing does not mean that a class is overpowered or underpowered.

I'm interested to see how you all feel about the whole picture, because I don't really have much experience playing as the sniper. Each time I tried him I would attempt to be helpful to the team and wasn't very successful.

Two things:

1) I can not stand it when people say "this game isn't about killing pros." It is so much about killing pros, because unless you clear the lane of opposing pros or at least push them back, you will never get your bots into their base. I have yet to see a team ignore the other team's pros in the same lane and win. Also, if you can not kill enemy pros, then you will be killed by them and they will push their bots. Sorry for sounding so annoyed by this point, but it is a false statement that comes up far too often in these forums.

2) Snipers are at least upper tier as far as pushing lanes and getting bots into the base. Their explosive shot takes out entire waves of enemy bots and they are really efficient at killing turrets from afar. That adds up to getting your bots into the base as effectively (or more effectively) than the other classes.

Ya exactly

Sniper is amazing at all the other aspect of the game as well, that's a given.
Flak lvl3 destroys turrets, combined with explo shot support can't even out heal it

Snipers can Head shot bots, this does huge damage and splashes to all nearby bots and pros, each shot giving a nice chunk of juice which increases for each target.

Once you get to the ball, flak 3 builds you fast money for a second run and keeps the enemy off the ball


Traps at your feet when you go in and you wont get punted while you blast away, add in the smg which is just crazy juiced up close for anyone who try's to hug you
A juiced sniper rifle with gold rof hitting the money ball does retarded damage fast and splashes to anyone who gets close to it as well as the flak

Ive taken down my fair share of money balls solo

lol outhealing damage on turrets is bullshit to begin with so why does it matter?

really, ur complaining about flak the weakest sniper skill?