How to use the orbital unit Omega?

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by huangth, August 23, 2015.

  1. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    It is a very expensive unit.
    Originally I thought it is a very strong unit.
    But after few battles, I find out it is somewhat low dpm.
    Now I am curious.
    When should I build this unit?

    It is counted by Artemis due to the long range of the Artemis.
    It also does less damage than multiple SXX with the same price.
    Thus, I think it is designed to counter the Avenger.
    But I quite doubt this.

    Its price is about 47 times of the Avenger,
    but I don't think it can really defeat 40+ Avenger.
  2. radongog

    radongog Well-Known Member

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    Although being very slow it´s still a very flexible unit as it´s glorious for wiping away Anchors, can be used for defending Jigs, can even used for attacks on Commanders, although of course ways less effective then dedicated units.
    You can also do "Planet Hopping" with them, as they got enough life to don´t be killed by a single shot of an Umbrella!
    One cannot kill 40+ parallel attacking Avengers, but one can kill infinite sequential Avengers. :D
    No, really, they are both good at defending as well as killing orbital fortifications.
    pieman2906 and huangth like this.
  3. probodobodyne

    probodobodyne Active Member

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    Remember the pre-titans Anchor? It took roughly 18 Avengers to kill one. But guess how many Avengers it took to destroy two Anchors? Hint: Much more than 36. The more Omegas there are that are grouped together, the more screwed avengers are. Maybe one Omega won't survive 47 avengers, but 2 will certainly butcher most of them and 3 will take a ridiculous number of Avengers to even attempt to counter. All on top of that is that Omegas are ar more durable and compact; this is much better for handling as Avenger swarms usually have trouble all being in position to fire at once.
  4. temeter

    temeter Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if mass avenger/orbital railguns won't become a bit too strong. Railguns kill everything slow (like omegas) and static, while putting enough holes into avenger swarms to help your own fighters to deal with everything else. Only thing lacking is orbital to ground, but that can be added in. All the while, they are more mobile than any composition with Omegas ever would be. Railguns are incredible at sniping structures.

    Guess the other counter would be omega+railgun, but that's slow and way more expensive, so it can be overwhelmed, while falling behind in railguns becomes incredibly punishing.
  5. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I understand the usage of Omega,
    but I think this unit needs some modification.
    1. Keep his job as a counter unit for avenger
    2. Make it cheaper but weaker, so let it becomes more visible
    The price 14000 metal is too expensive, I think it should be modified to about 6000.
    Of course, its DPM and HP should also be adjusted.
  6. temeter

    temeter Well-Known Member

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    Omega has to be more cost-effitient anyway, seems like it's pretty bad at dealing with avengers.
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  7. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    somehow i feel the omega is more meant to be dropped into a base than fighting masses of avangers but i would have to test that ...

    avangers would be now purely antiunit than anti structure so meaning you use them against omegas and railguns and sxx's rather
  8. temeter

    temeter Well-Known Member

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    Land or orbital base?
    Because I imagine dropping 40 avengers into a base would be more efficient. And as far as I can tell, the best way to kill orbital stations now is using a bunch of artemis railguns, who do a lot more damage per metal at three times the range.
    As for killing ground bases, a single SSX Laser does a lot more damage at a much lower price while still having 1.1k hp.
    Also, all units are at least almost two times as fast as an omega.

    Only thing Omegas wins at is coolness factor, but that doesn't kill stuff.

    As said, at the beginning I expected a scissor/stone/paper thing between avenger/omega/artemis, but the omega really doesn't do anything cost-efficiently. Doesn't beat avengers, gets killed by artemis, is worse than artemis at killing structures, doesn't do enough ground damage - or has enough hp - to replace SSX.
    huangth likes this.
  9. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    a sxx is easily dispatched by umbrellas i dare say omegas have at least some stayingpower

    artemis is energy dependant so you can't nessesarily amass them against orbital and avangers take them out easily
    Last edited: August 27, 2015
  10. temeter

    temeter Well-Known Member

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    You'd assume so. Or I certainly did.

    Then I looked at the units stats:
    http://pa-db.com/unit/orbital_battleship
    http://pa-db.com/unit/orbital_laser
    http://pa-db.com/unit/orbital_railgun

    Omega costs 14k metal and has 4k hp, a single SXX costs 4k metal at 1.1k hp. So the omega isn't really that much tougher per metal.

    SSX laser stats: 1k damage, 4 seconds, 20 radius splash, 50 range
    Omega ground laser: 300 damage, 2 seconds, 4 radius splash, 120 range

    One SSX and 33 avengers (cost as much as 1 omega) would leave enough firepower to erradicate an omega in the matter of seconds and then go on to waste stuff on ground faster. I honestly don't know how much energy a single SSX pulls, but I'd imagine that won't balance out the 14k metal you need to pay for an omega.
    A lot of this is of course speculating by stats, but the omega looks really kinda bad.
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  11. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    will test the stuff tomorow when i got the time
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  12. temeter

    temeter Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you can make more sense out of it, I'd love to hear your opinion.

    Btw, as to umbrellas: I did fly an omega over an umbrella. Trust me, it's an experience I don't want to repeat. Our little capital can't tank shots.
  13. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    yea i will also play arround with titancounters and how to quickly dispatch manhattans if possible ...
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  14. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    so play tested orbital in sandbox ... and generaly what i can say a realy good counter against both helios and and omega or pretty much any orbital unit are tactical missiles and not only umbrellas ... and realy suround your base with catapults as those have an even longer range than umbrellas yes they have worse rate of fire but i argue that their high alpha varrants their use ..

    now omegas ... yeeaaa .... not impressive as people said .. like realy it´s a more expensive (way too expensive) mobile anchor it can take a bit more umbrellashots but nothing to write home about .. it´s antiground weapon is not realy good but against single units .. otherwise realy it can be easily taken down by swarms of avangers .. artemis not nessecarily needed .. .. so i say reduce cost by half and buff dps maybe even increase health by half..
  15. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    By the way, you say that catapult has longer ranger than the umbrella
    Is it true?

    I check the PADB, it shows that the umbrella gets better range, DPM.
    And the umbrella is even more cheaper!
    http://pa-db.com/compare?u1=ion_defense&u2=tactical_missile_launcher

    I think the orbital range of catapult is 240.
    But I don't know the orbital range of umbrella is 300 or 180.
    The values of 300 and 180 are both listed, and they both can target the orbit.
  16. Phireh

    Phireh Member

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    I believe the range of the umbrella is 180, but the range of launch pod interception, which is its second attack, is 300.
  17. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I think it is reverse.
    Weapon 1 has 300 range, it can only target the orbit.
    Weapon 2 has 180 range, it can target both orbit and air.

    I think the drop pods is an air unit since I have seen the AA defensive structure fire to them.
    And I am more willing to believe the weapon 2 is to shoot down the drop pods from enemy unit cannon.
    Thus, the weapon 1 is the real performance for umbrella to target the orbital units.
  18. Quitch

    Quitch Post Master General

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    It's a bit of rock-paper-scissors I think. The Avenger beats the Artemis which beats the Omega which beats the Avenger. You also don't need it to tank Umbrellas for very long since, as with anything orbital, you should be appearing over your target rather than moving through the orbit of a planet. It's the only orbital unit, other than the Helios, which can take on orbital defences.

    My view on orbital so far is:

    Avenger - kills fabbers & swarms Artemis

    Artemis - Clears Anchors and can kill Omegas through kiting

    Omega - Primarily there to establish a beachhead. It won't beat its worth in Umbrellas, but why would you try to? Can also shield against Avenger swarms

    We'll see how that holds up.
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  19. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    i didn't check the numbers but visualy the weaponrangecycle of the catapult appeared to be larger than the umbrela .. even if not i still would build it for the high alphadamage ..
  20. temeter

    temeter Well-Known Member

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    The 400 damage 'orbital, air' should indicate pod or missile interception, you'll find that on all TML and point defense units (also angel and gil-e).

    TMLs like the bluehawk or catapult have generic attacks targeting 'LandHorizontal, WaterSurface, Orbital'.

    Wondered about that too, I think umbrella shows the orbital range on the ground level, and the orbital sphere is ofc bigger than the planet (might also be a bug).
    Which does leave the question open how to interprete the TML range...

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