How do I beat Vanguards?

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by damnhippie, July 19, 2014.

  1. damnhippie

    damnhippie Active Member

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    Very true. To reduce micro it would also be nice to have a "target highest value units" button.
  2. shotforce13

    shotforce13 Well-Known Member

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    Knight pretty much nailed it on the head.

    I invisioned the tank destroyer being a t1 unit for one of many reasons. Sense the vanguard pretty much makes t1 pretty well worthless, a t1 heavy gun would allow you to some what survive if you lost the race to t2. It would give t1 a good counter against t2 without invalidating either tier.

    As knight pointed out, heavy weapons are slow and most of the time cant fire while moving (unstable platform) and with a fixed turret would need to move its frame to line up with the target, this gives faster units like bots a chance to out flank and destroy them. Most anti-tank guns can out range some of your standard tank guns.

    In closing, the vanguard is an assault weapon, its job is to fight its way to and pierce enemy lines, tank destroyers where first invented to repel tank invasions from capturing important locations and holding areas of importants.
  3. metabolical

    metabolical Uber Alumni

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    By the way, I just tested kiting vanguards with both Dox and Grenadiers. In both cases I was able to micro/kite them and take no losses. (Dox was hard though).

    I'm pretty sure somebody will come back crying with why something that involves not vanguards will win and tell me, "But mix in bombers or levelers or bears, oh my!" People asked me what kills Vanguards I've provided five different ways now. If your conclusion is that you should have an army involving a variety of units, then I'm going to be forced to agree.
    Remy561 likes this.
  4. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    Well it takes a lot of time to use bots, and almost none to use vanguards.

    Using vanguards is superior based on time alone.

    Why would I use a unit that takes so much time to use when I could, you know, not?
    RainbowDashPwny likes this.
  5. damnhippie

    damnhippie Active Member

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    I don't disagree that Vanguards die and thanks for the videos (I haven't used catapults since their overhaul or the missile bots much) but I feel that they're very difficult to stop.

    I've got to find out how to do that spawn anything sandbox mode that you've got though, it would be invaluable for testing new tactics.
  6. tehtrekd

    tehtrekd Post Master General

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    In the PAMM, these 4 cheat mods enable the cheats.
    chea.png
    To my knowledge you can't get that unit palate thing, though :(
    damnhippie likes this.
  7. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    You need to download the sandbox unit toolbox in order to use the unit palate.
    damnhippie likes this.
  8. tehtrekd

    tehtrekd Post Master General

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    Oh is that what that mod does?
    I never found out how to turn on the "allow create units" cheat :/
    damnhippie likes this.
  9. metabolical

    metabolical Uber Alumni

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    Obviously I use the internal tools, so I'm not as clear on the capabilities we gave you, but if you can build a unit, perhaps with the help of an avatar, then I hover my cursor over it and press control-c to copy it, and then control-v will paste it in.
    damnhippie likes this.
  10. aevs

    aevs Post Master General

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    But how much time do you have to spend doing this? With a stream of vanguards, they may deal no direct damage, but they'll force you to waste lots of time moving dox slightly further and further back.
    Basically, what do you think of this thread?
    ArchieBuld likes this.
  11. wondible

    wondible Post Master General

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    The toolbox mod is a trivial addon to live_game. Maybe it's small enough to jump the priority queue? It would save people a little frustration, but maybe it's my fault for choosing a poor mod name. ;^)

    Code:
    if (model['cheatAllowCreateUnit']) {
      model.sandbox(model.cheatAllowCreateUnit())
      model.cheatAllowCreateUnit.subscribe(model.sandbox)
    }
    
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  12. damnhippie

    damnhippie Active Member

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    Thanks for all of the responses to my question! I'll definitely get those mods and try them out :D.
  13. Corpserule

    Corpserule Member

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    Could we perhaps have a video of a situation where a player has rushed vanguard as fast as possible, aka, a single vanguard assualt, and a possible counter given the other player has the same time/resources.

    You could say "attack him before he finishes an advanced factory", but when unit speed + commander's defensive strength is taken into account, its really hard to stop him building the first one. (except if your first choice was air).

    I don't really care for mixed armies, its really about, what can u do during the early game's limited resources? In my optinion, vanguards are pretty terrible in the late game, due to their low range. Though you have used Dox's, how long did that take? it seems like a reasonable solution but how difficult is it to pull off. Remember their incredible ability to 2 shot factories, time is of the essence.
  14. Corpserule

    Corpserule Member

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    I know it seems silly that someone sends in a single unit to defeat a commander, but people are doing this online with incredible frequency, because as i said before "its hard to stop, even when you know its coming

    "Did you just quote yourself?" yes, deal with it
  15. Aliessil

    Aliessil Active Member

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    That used to be the case, but not so much these days - modern armies use anti-tank missiles. These can be hand-held by the infantry (bots), loaded onto attack helicopters (air - think Apache) or often some kind of APC (FV102 Striker - think Spinner but not AA [vehicle]).

    A bit off-topic but ... :)
  16. KNight

    KNight Post Master General

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    Yes, lets compared player expectations in a game about sentient robots that build things out of nanomachines in order to smash planets together to modern military hardware.[/sarcasm]

    Mike
    stuart98, igncom1 and squishypon3 like this.
  17. RainbowDashPwny

    RainbowDashPwny Active Member

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    If those vanguards have a few tanks around them, which they almost always do. Those dox won't be touching that vanguard any time soon. My past 3 games have all been decided by vanguards. Whoever gets them first wins.
  18. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    Well to be fair that's a more diverse unit composition than just dox alone, they deserve to win to a degree.
  19. RainbowDashPwny

    RainbowDashPwny Active Member

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    Yeah, but right now dox don't win against anything so saying dox can kite vanguards isn't saying much because who is going to have just a vanguard? You will have whatever t1 you had before you reached t2 and atm the only thing that can beat most t2 units are t2 units.
  20. squishypon3

    squishypon3 Post Master General

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    Well but who is going to have *just* a dox?

    (Note: I actually agree with you in principle, but whether it's a dox vs a mixed army or an ant vs a mixed army, the singular unit army is just begging to be beaten by a mixed force. )
    igncom1 likes this.

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