Hotfix build 77725 now live

you've obviously not played against the combat fab, wall, grenadier move have you? It isn't that either one of these units is op on its own, but combined when on a map with good choke points... Bombers are about the only counter, and that relies on you having air dominance...

It seems like t1 energy still displays a cost of 450?

Basically what you said. This is precisely what experience I had. Especially bad when they get their hands on multiple combat fabs.

that is likely to be the result of an outdated mod

Bombers are not the only counter. Both T2 bots and tanks have more than enough range to take out combat fabbers in a single hit if micro'd properly. Or a small clump of dox if used properly. If you let your opponent wall you in, it's your own fault for not prioritizing the squishy and strategically important CFs. It sounds to me like you both have just not bothered to update your meta and are instead calling for a nerf in < 24 hours of gameplay.

Is teleporter for anyone for 400 metal still? I have just fx mods installed.

- was the mods 800 now without any mods.

Probably a good idea to remind anyone reporting bugs that before you do so, you should ensure that it's occurring in a game that is completely vanilla. Even small mods can affect things in places that you wouldn't necessarily expect. Especially if it's one of Stuart's

Next change to PA Hub:

Code:

if (content.data.author == "stuart98" && model.isNewBuild()) {
   content.flagAsBroken(true);
}

(with apologies to @stuart98 )

I don't see how grenadiers + combat fabs are going to be really op, Ants 1-shot grenadiers so that combat fab is only building walls and is very vulnerable.

Now ants and combat fabs, that would be juicy and I intend on trying it out

The problem is that grenadiers can shoot over walls and hit the tanks they're aiming for. Its also a bit late if you go t2 because the walls could already have choked you enough that you're enemy has a massive lead over you.

The underlining problem is that combat fabbers can build walls now and they're cheap enough that you can get them out quickly enough to be a big problem with all the walls that pop up everywhere now.

I think T2 subs should have bigger view distance, and attack range, so enemy does not know what is happening if he does not scout.

I disagree with elodea about t1 subs being the same as frigate, frigate can be attacked by rest of naval, and subs only underwater. Subs are a good counter for destroyer, but bad against air, frigate is good for air, ok for naval, and bad against destroyer. Destroyer is the best for attacking enemy without subs and air. Everything fits together. Well, T2 sub could be better in some ways.

I'm not calling for a nerf- however saying "t2 counters it" doesn't really help when the game is focused at t1 stage.

The 'opponent walling you in' occurs really fast as well (first couple of minutes) and due to their build range the walls go up whilst the combat fab is out of range. You can't shoot the combat fab with a t1 tank with a wall in front of it (it's not tall enough, unlike towers / the commander). Grenadiers then sit behind the wall shooting your tanks. The combat fabber moves up to the wall, which gives it enough range to build the next wall. You slowly get pushed further and further back. Doxes don't work once the walls are up, and the combat fabber can build a wall quick enough to block approaching doxes.

It really is a powerful play. I played a set of games against @cmdrflop where he agreed only to use combat fabs and grenadiers offensively (+ aa if he needed it), whilst I was given free reign to do anything else.

I tried: Standard hard tank build. I was able to kite the first couple of combat fabbers forcing him to retreat on one front, only for him to get a wall at the other side of my base (despite be rallying a couple of factories there) and pushed my there. Infernos can attack the walls, but the combat fabs repair them and the grenadier take them out before really being able to do much. Also even without walls grenadiers simply kite infernos all day so that isn't a counter.

I next tried hard bots (using everything but grenadier + combat fabbers). I positioned dox around the map, even got a few fabber kills. Still the walls started going up and I got pushed back. Tried boom bots to get past, however you need too many to make a hole in the walls, all the while loosing any units that get too close. Again dox can't fire back, so you have to retreat (which gives room for *another* wall).

Final build I went mixed bot, tank and hard air. That works reasonably, flop was able to win though by mixing in lots of AA with his grenadier / combat fab mixture. The problem is once you get grenadiers behind a wall it's really expensive to assault. I even got a fairly early t2 bot factory and went for bluehawks but I was too far behind for it to make a difference (and also bluehawks target the walls by default meaning *a lot* of micro to prevent the wall creep).

I'm not saying there is no counter, however firstly given the timings it needs to be using the T1 unit roster, and second it has to be viable against someone with equal skill. The main weakness of the grenadier push is that it's micro intensive to keep everything in position so I guess that gives you a chance to counter.

So your counter to grenadiers/combat fabbers is boom bots - they'll smash through the walls and they're too quick for grens to hit

Seriously try it, everyone (including myself) says the same thing until you face it. I recommend you give @cmdrflop a game or 2 as he's got the tactic nailed. We were playing on Forge (which is ideal for the strat, larger maps I guess it may not work as well).

Tried that, walls have too much hp. Maybe that is a big part of the issue actually?

Aaand this was the guy who destroyed me in two matches with the grenadier/combat fab push.

EDIT:
If he gets his wall push going on me first, it becomes hard for me to gain ground while defending at the same time, while he is able to expand as much as he wants due to me having to dedicate myself to defence.

If anything the solution is to change walls (which I hear is in the works), not to remove them from combat fabbers.

I have seen this in a solo single player mission, I think it is the result of using all your incoming metal and some of your stored metal without wasting much. Pretty sure the issue is that the calculation is based on metal used vs metal income and the initial metal in your commander storage does actually allow for using more than 100% of metal income.

Well this looks rather excellent. Very excellent, indeed.

New issue with the System Editor... landing zones appear below water, making them almost impossible to see.

EDIT: Aaaand there the editor crashed when I tried to place a Jungle Temple object, and I'll have to start over. I guess the editor wasn't the focus of this patch but it would be nice to have it at least semi-workable by now.

EDIT 2: Crashed again when entering Advanced Edit mode on a planet.

EDIT 3: Keeps crashing randomly, and the game also refuses to let me Alt-Tab to a different program while it's frozen. As in, the PC doesn't lock up, and I can open the Alt-Tab interface, but when I select a different program to switch to, PA remains on top. This of course is not a new issue, but it's something I think a lot of people have trouble with, even when the game isn't crashed. Should be solved by running in windowed mode, but that's not usually preferable.

Zoom out to just after mex spots disappear; they become more visible for me at that point, it may help you too