Halloween Unmasking Part I Discussion

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175.
275.
Bacon.

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What fun is it that I already see through your thinly frosted doughnuts?

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Mmmm doughnuts.

Uber's favorite doughnut place: http://www.frostology.com/

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Don't you mean

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misunderstanding. my argument was that juice purchasing cant be removed because certain people dont make juice as quick as others, and are at varying levels of danger.

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The biggest problem about the assassin change is that they also get juice way too quickly. Being able to kill bots very quickly gives assassins way too much juice (like the sniper). On that note why do the heavy classes get juice so slowly? Everyone is good at killing enemies while juiced and you would think it only fair if every class got juice at approximately the same rate; it's not even remotely close if you play a tank or gunner.

If you're going to buff assassins back I'd like to see them lose something... perhaps reduced juice damage to turrets with the sword/dagger. The problem with assassins is that they have an instant kill before you consider lunge. Another problem to consider is that before assassins had an instant kill combo. Lunge into a grapple and the enemy is dead before they get to respond. If you're going to give them back damage I'd really like to suggest that you make the lunge attack and their swings take longer to execute. Also why does the assassin get credit for taunting while invisible? This is broken because no other class can taunt without fear of being attacked. It's just as broken as cloaking while starting a grapple but somehow remained in the game. Are fans watching the game with thermal vision binoculars?

On a related note, why can't we activate juice while being grappled? Why can't you counter grapple someone who is grappling a team member? Why can't you interrupt a grapple with a skill like charge or slam? It makes perfect sense.

And no offense... I have to bring this up again, but why does the gunner have a grapple skill? Slam is great but the other two skills don't work for their intended purpose. At grapple range you can kill any bot just as quickly by shooting it so don't give me that line. Can we PLEASE get every class an additional skill so that we can swap one skill out for some variety? You want an idea of how to keep this game going... there it is. You said in one of your videos that you had originally planned lots of skills for each class..... problem solved.

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It hasn't been removed, its just on a cooldown now.

I'm guessing its a global cooldown now, making controlling the center of the map that much more vital.

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They get juice faster when they deal less damage to bots because it's based on number of hits not damage dealt (at least with the blades). I can now get juice just from slashing with the dagger before I've even made $200. More damage per hit = less hits to kill = less juice gain.

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Assassins get juice quickly, but consider how squishy they are and their lack of a reliable mid-range weapon. If anything with a gun comes by when you're slashing up bots, you're gonna be dead unless you get out fast. I also find that Gunners that are constantly doing damage to bots gain Juice pretty fast. Besides, the Tank gains juice at a crazy pace when he's Deployed.

Another point about Assassins, is that they do not have a "one hit kill", and neither does the Sniper. Gunners with overheal and Tanks with full Passive upgrades can easily survive both. Assaults with GobiNumb armor are also able to survive a Dagger back grapple at full health.

As for not being able to Juice when grappled, or grapple someone who's grappling, the animations cause all parties involved to lose control of their class for the duration. Allowing one to Juice or counter grapple while being grappled defeats this concept.

For the Gunner's "useless" grapple skill, have you ever been caught off guard while reloading your minigun, and your adversary jumps over your Slam? Use that Grapple skill and they won't be as much of a problem. Also, the Gunner's Deploy doesn't just make him more accurate, it boosts his crit chances and increases his resistance to damage, making it a perfect skill for defending your base.

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starpilot's post

Another thing, this buff to her is making up for the HUGE nerf of dagger lunge's damage, and every argument about her being broken, play tank or gunner, she's no longer a threat to you, but i'm assuming by your name that you do play as gunner, so why worry?

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Actually the tank and gunner build juice fairly quick shooting bots, even more so adding in melee attacks.
The assassins juice rate is fine, shes a light class that has to be in the lanes in melee range (lolexplosiveshots) avoiding ejectors and all that jazz
Destroys turrets great but is the least effective pro killer juiced or not.
Tanks and gunners are the most powerful pros under the effects of juice.
Able to completely wreck both pros and turrets with no effort.

I'm sure you would. :roll:
But that would defeat the purpose of buffing them now wouldn't it?
WOOW.

I get killed taunting all the time, the sin is not invisible, shes transparent.
And of all the things to complain about...
She is not performing an offensive action, therefor she may remain cloaked.

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She still gets money for it though. It's like being able to hack while walking but 100x worse!

I still want to see something in the list that stops an assassin tearing down a whole base by holding RT :? Less moneyball damage isn't it.

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And from what I see Assassins are extremely well suited to escape. Unless I approach you from a blind angle you're about 50% likely to get away. So your low defense point is moot. Every class should gain juice at the same rate.... they don't and that's my point.

If I have half a bar of juice and then I destroy 3-4 waves of bots, a turret and maybe another pro I will get juice. That's not a quick way to get juice.

You are comparing your worst case scenario to their best case scenario. That sir is a logical fallacy. If you have your sword you will kill ANYTHING from behind with a rear grapple attack besides a tank. The exception is when they are overhealed .... it is not the rule.

Counter grapples only make sense considering every class has one. Juicing during a grapple is questionable but if we're buffing the assassin to the level of the first patch something must be changed.

You don't play gunner very often or you're playing very unskilled opponents. I assume we're talking about getting caught by an assassin? Earlier today the enemy had 4 assassins. I killed one, was grappled by another and killed her. At this point I had The other two happend to be close by but I was 99% dead. I stayed alive for another 15 seconds while they tried to grapple me and use their shurikens on me. I hit one with my slam and was about to kill another when the first two assassins came back and finished me off. The moral of the story: The gunner's jump jets are an amazing defense. If you're caught reloading and don't want to wait 5 seconds then switch to your mortar.

As for the gunner's grapple... it is by far the worst skill in the game in design and effective usefulness. The gunner's low speed makes his grapple useful only against bots, yet he cannot grapple the jackbot with it (which actually would be useful). I gave it an honest try for about 50 games and I've never spent money on it since. It's complete crap and everyone knows it.

The gunner's deploy is effectively getting nerfed as his damage is being decreased at long range. What is deploy for? increased damage and increased accuracy at range. Oh nevermind.... it's now just a plus damage skill while deployed. The level 3 skill's intent I assume is to make him an effective turret vs snipers (and other pros). If this is indeed the intent then it too is a failure as the increased health does not scale with the increased attack power of the sniper's passive skill.

Having on a timer will greatly nerf gunners also, as juice is the only cost effective upgrade worth buying after passive 3, (slam 2 and deploy 2 if you really, really need them but 99% of the time I don't bother).

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This is a load of bull considering how much faster the assassin is compared to the gunner or tank. You never play gunner anyway how do you know? You used to play assault and then you went exclusively assassin with the occasional support.

You would of course say that considering she is the best early game juicer and second late game juicer (before the sniper gets nerfed). In an environment where screaming the loudest gets your class buffed it's clear that I should start yelling.

Again I'm going to call you on this BS. The assassin is great from killing people from behind. How do I know? I can play gunner for 5 minutes and get enough money to max out cloak, sword and buy one dash upgrade (and the gunner 3 passive). From there I can do very well just running around assassinating people and doing absolutely nothing else. If that's not how you want to play assassin fine... but admit that an assassin assassinating people is an EXTREMELY effective at killing pros without enemies being able to fight back. You for example honed the act of lunging perfectly into a front grapple to kill enemies before they knew what hit them. I say that was just a bit overpowered.

Assassins kill me with one sword hit while juiced even if I have gold armor. Assassins are capable of leveling an entire base with one juice. I've seen you do it, I've seen other assassins do it. I've heard you say Assassins are extremely powerful when juiced and so have many others. Here's a news flash... every class is good at killing enemy pros while juiced. Gunners, tanks, and assassins can all kill turrets while not juiced so they do even better while juiced. Just about every class is equally difficult to kill while juiced if you don't have juice. So cut the crap eh?

I'm too lazy at the moment to find the link but you said on these boards something to the effect of... "I play just the same after getting my sword". The assassin was too powerful with the old dagger lunge and EVERYBODY knew it. What was the point of nerfing the assassin if everyone screamed about it (without cause) and it was all undone?

Again I can call you out here; after the patch you said something like thank goodness the cloak taunt wasn't removed. I'm all for letting you stay cloaked while taunting but you should get 5$ not $50. From a balance standpoint you get $50 for taunting because you open yourself up for attacks. While cloaked you do not open yourself up for attacks. So either you should get $5 or you should be vunerable like everyone else. It doesn't make sense from a balance standpoint and it doesn't make sense in the environment of the game.

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You sure like to jump to conclusions about what classes others play often UberGunner. I personally play any class (except Sniper), though lately I've been favoring Assault. That said, I have a custom class for each class (again except Sniper), and 2 custom sets for Gunner. Not everyone has the same playstyle and not everyone uses the same endorsements. If you want to know what endorsements I use, 5 of my 6 custom classes are right here.

Assassin is roughly the same afaik. Assault, Tank, and Support are slower.

I am comparing my own experience and endorsement setups to situations I have been in. Also note that I am talking about both forms of the Assassin grapple.

That's odd considering that it takes a Juiced Assassin 2 hits to kill me with silver armor. This is also a situation where the Gunner Grapple (especially level 3) is handy.

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It's odd to me how upset some of you guys are getting. There is only "increased" and "decreased" in there, not by how much. Maybe, just maybe, you should wait and see how it plays before passing judgement.

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You know you can create a new XBL account with a free month of gold, right? There's a limit of four created per console and I think you could possibly do another four via Hotmail/MSN but abuse of that would be grounds for banning

In a way, it's better that the defenses are more frail. If it's easier to turtle in your base than to go on the attack, it's promoting stalemates.

EVERYONE RAISE YOUR HANDS IF YOU LIKE STALEMATES!

Yeah, stalemates suck. I'd rather lose than have a stalemate, personally.

Naked? No. It's a T-rated game

...Pitgirl? The tone of the skin looks similar to hers, but as another user mentioned...The...thingies...concealing the head do seem to cover up much more than is necessary. Suspicious!

I mostly play Blitz, but in my experience a laser blazer doesn't amount to anything unless it's hacked. And regarding hacked turrents, I'd much rather have a rockit or shave ice turrent instead of a laser blazer.

Rabble? RABBLERABBLE!

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Particularly, they said they decreased the minimum damage at high ranges, they're still going to have massive bullet spam, but soon it won't be "Oh god wtf is hitting me" and will be "Oh god, wtf is hitting.. oh its a gunner cross map, time to move"

Oh, and Star pilot (off topic sorry) I was looking at your classes and saw you roll the same gunner build as I used to, Clip/RoF/Reload. I switched it to RoF/Clip/Accuracy since the reload is still pretty long, and I continually catch myself reloading after almost every enounter if I don't immediately see another pro. I can't bring myself to drop the clip size, but I never use the entire clip unless I don't switch to engage bots at close range.

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im guessing thats either a unmasked assassin or pitgirl censored in that picture..hmm

as for any game changes , they look good i was wishing to see a lil railgun fire damage but its still good as is.. i was thinking the other day and like how quake had the consecutive rail hit with the award"excellent" i thought it would be cool to give a lil burn damage for consecutive railgun shots.. im going to post this in wishlist to see what that part of the forum might think about it.

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Or I happen to have played with bolt before. Or I have friends who play with/against bolt and tell me about the last few games they played with him. If you haven't guessed then take a hint; I've played a few games with him.

Here's what you're forgetting: The assassin pysically moves and kills bots more quickly than the gunner. It's easy for you to clear one lane and then go kill the other. Usually I'm getting half a bar of juice by getting 5-8 kills. I don't last long enough in the lane to really do much bot clearing. A gunner absolutely must utilize cover in order to be successful.

And how often do shoot someone in the head or rear grapple a non tank and they survive out of all the times you do it? If I'm playing with friends and we have two supports I rarely have a white bar after the first life (they are great about the first life and sometimes that is all that really matters).

It's called a lunge. If you're grappling a juiced assassin (who already moves about twice as fast as you do as a gunner) then that's one crap assassin. Instead of buying your level 3 grapple you could always buy juice to keep a streak alive (which will pay for that juice if you are successful). Or you could buy juice to wipe out all the enemy turrets which will also give you some decent money if you get a few kills.