Gunners.....still......really?

*Imagines a slow in quake* OH MY GOD THE HORROR MAKE IT STOP MAKE IT STOP.

Seriously though, slows in a fast past game = nono

Well, the Heavy isn't in MNC, so he can howl as much as he wants

I'm not saying the slowdown falloff should drop to nigh-nil at the same rate as the bullet, probably rig it so the slowdown drops to about a 1-second duration at maybe twice the falloff range of the bullet damage

Natasha was broken in TF2. Hugely better then the other options. In a primary weapon slot that is a bad thing.

If you really need to take out a gunner and don't mind a lot of mind games as an assassin do this.

Cloak far away and behind. Uncloak if its clear and dash into lunge grab range. Even if hes buffed it has a good chance of one shotting him due to the added lunge slash. If the gunner is good at slamming as soon as he hears any noticeable assassin sound (like the lunge) don't use lunge grab, and go for a dash grab, or even a cloaked dash grab. With level 2 dash and speed pick ups, you should be able to grab him before he can react to the cloak sound.

But there's always times when he instantly turns around. This is where the fun starts. If you lunge + face grab him, you have several options. Smoke bomb jump if hes not good at counter grabbing, smoke bomb and dash to the left or right (the blind will keep you somewhat safe. Some gunners instantly blind fire into the air when you smoke bomb jump to catch you, even while blind. This makes them pay for that instinct.)

Or you can do what I do with my setup. Gold Armor, Silver RoF, Broze Regen:
Go for the lunge backstab. If its setup correctly, you insta kill. If he gets lucky, or a glitch happens and you lunge facestab him, his health should be 10-50%, depending on his armor endorsement choice, and buffing. If hes buffed, I run. If hes around 25-35% a bar? I jump almost as soon as the grab animation is done. MOST gunners will slam right after an assassin grab. Jumping after the first slam puts him at what I consider his worse range. The melee range.

You see, gunners have a huge hit box, and a camera that goes over their shoulder. They can't really aim well against something thats hugging them so close. So, if you jump around and move chaotically, you should be able to kill the rest of his health and still barely survive, with gold armor and silver rof, depending on luck and the skill of the gunner. Think Heavy vs Scout. Jump over his head. Even bounce on his head and slash down. That almost always works, because it also stops his slam.

He can do several things to counter this. Delay his slam, expecting your jump (thats where the mind games come from), try to kill you with the minigun, or counter grab.

If he has level 2-3 grab, great. You'll live with plenty/barely of health unless he rings you out with it, due to gold armor, as long as he didn't hit you. Pull out your shuriken and finish him off


Done correctly, I've killed 4-5 star level 100+ gunners a good majority of the time. The one heavy counter Ive seen to this is when they use a level 1 grab to just hold me in place. With that, its best to jump the slam, or go for a smoke bomb and hope for the best.


Shurriken is the safest bet.

To be honest I haven't played TF2 since I got MNC.
I've started it up a couple of times to check the hats in the store when they've added new ones (to see what they look like) but haven't actually entered a game.
I'm hoping Uber development will be similar though: not the hat part or the store part, but the slowly build up new game modes and maps and garner a large playerbase that sticks around forever.

On Topic: I was playing my gunner last night with this thread in mind - Classes that tended to kill me: Assault, Sniper, Tank, Assassin, Support, Other gunners... I don't think taking down a gunner is much of a problem
Assault was 50/50: if they got the drop on me or were good with the bomb they won.
Sniper: yeah
Assassin: traded kills. If I spotted her first she was toast otherwise I was toast.
Support: had the most trouble killing me but close range shotgun did it many times.
Gunner: whoever had better aim and higher rof won.

it's usually just whoever starts spinning their gun first, since it's kind of hard for them to miss each other

second most annoying mirror matchup, after the assassin vs assassin grabfest+coinflip

That is the most annoying thing in the game for me.
They should really implement something to make it somewhat less stupid.

the biggest problem is that what happens after the first grapple seems completely random, as far as who gets to act first, and even whether the two people end up in range for a followup grab/slash

sometimes I'll get the first grab, then try desperately to move/jump away to avoid the counter-grab but end up getting grabbed anyway

sometimes I'll be grabbed first and attempt to go for the counter-grab, only to miss due to range even though the other guy is pushing toward me slicing away

I actually tried this out with a friend yesterday.
What happens after the first grapple was pretty consistent for us: facegrapple
Didn't have the problem of not being able to grapple (maybe a lag related thing? We both had just about the same amount of lag)

From that point on it comes down to how you play and how the enemy plays and what both of us prefer to do after it.

There are a lot of possibilities and only two are actually good (we both bomb jump or I bomb jump and he slashes). Everything else is bullshit.

I wonder if a good fix for this would be to add a skill&grapple-drain to grapples... The first one to get in a grapple drains the others skill abilities and grapple abilities by a tiny bit, enough to not make the grapple insta-returnable. Of course this could backfire on assassins though. :roll:

Very simple fix in my opinion: If you grapple an assassin (face or back and just an assassin as an assassin) your lunge cooldown gets reset. Problem solved, no bullshit anymore and isn't a big problem.

Grapple duels are -already- a crapshoot. Giving a victory to the person who gets lucky is not a good idea.

You didn't understand it.

Assassin 1 grapples - lunge cooldown gets reset
Assassin 2 grapples - lunge cooldown gets reset
Both assassins now don't have lunge available.

They are both a one-hit kill if somebody slashes, which you can avoid with a smoke bomb.

That way you can at least get out of that retarded situation.

I once read that you can grapple an Assassin out of a smokebomb, yet I never see it. In fact it seems that the actual smokebomb animation turns the Assassin into a concrete pillar as in I've seen it stop a lvl3 ChargeGrapple from an Assault and even make a lvl3 JetCharge from a Tank cause him to just slide off to the side of her

All secondary and skill grapples should work besides the Assault's charge. I've done it countless times.

Sometimes Assault Charge 3 decides it wants to work anyways. Lol latency.

Sometimes I like those grapple battles because I almost always am the only assassin in the server with gold armor.

I'd like to say the same, but I'm also usually the guy with over 300 ping. :lol:

where do you live? the middle of the ocean?

Not quite; South Africa. :lol:

The only one server where I ever get below 100 ping is the one single server based here and it's either constantly very empty or just sparingly populated by newbish people, so yeah.

Unlike other games I've tried, playing at a high ping doesn't make MNC stutter like hell at all; in fact it's very smooth with the otherwise obvious laggy inputs for grapples, activating skills etc. The main problem is when people start questioning how on earth I manage to land shots consistently despite the bad ping, and then the hackusations begin. :?