Gunner Pre-Nerf Discussion

Someone hasn't seen the long kiss good night.

But, I am cocky and arrogant! (My forum avatar is an assassin about to stab you.)

It's a weird line, we want to be able to discuss the game with the community, but we also don't want to go too specific on anything. The game is internally always in a minor state a flux, we're just as vocal or more so internally about what we think needs to change. It also means anything we say about what is changing might not actually change by the time the patch is released.

At the same time we're so close to the project we tend to (think we) know what has and hasn't changed. I'm not saying the issues people see aren't real, they just might not be new. Getting feedback of "change it back" when nothing has changed can be frustrating when it can supersede more useful feedback.

I sort of understand what you mean. To you all it is an old problem that might already have been fixed and just watching for approval or something from microsoft so to hear us continually complain is a pain in the butt for you. I understand, I'm just trying to point out sometimes you all unintentionally say something that might come off making you guys sound like a bunch of asshats when you probably don't. Now if you do want to sound like asshats, well then more power to you.

It is nice being able to talk to the developers.

Now just so you know... shadowrun style won't work for MNC because holding down the trigger doesn't make your aim go wild (for any weapon). Please remember that in shadowrun moving, jumping or continually shooting will completely ruin your aim. Before you ask for shadowrun style ask yourself as a tank how often do you stand still while shooting that rail gun (which I assume would fall under shadowrun sniper rifle mechanics). The minigun is the only gun in the game that is designed for you to hold down the trigger. As a result it has much less of a penalty for hosing down an area (compared to say the smg).

Honestly I think you would be upset with shadowrun style.... because you'd die nearly instantly vs a gunner who was at full firing speed (remember the MNC clip size is much bigger compared to the shadowrun clip). I'd be happy to waste 1/3 of a clip bar to kill you in about 1 second at a full spin. Pre spinning would just become pre firing and the benefit there would be a massive damage increase on the back end.

Let me quote you in reference to talking about what I can only presume is yourself.

I'm really more of a douche than an asshat.

Wait, what? The minigun in SR takes a second to wind up, and then takes another second to build up, and then gets to full spin. It doesn't just start coming out full speed. And the mini in SR has a larger clip I'm pretty sure. Basically, it would just take longer to start shooting, and you'd have to keep shooting.

The SR minigun clip is 150 but you get 450 ammo in reserve. MNC gunners start with 400 bullets with no endorsements. And you completely ignored the shadowrun target reticle comments.

How is bloom a factor when you compare them? I believe the SR clip takes longer to waste because it shoots more slowly. I'm just saying that the Sr minigun would make it a little harder to use.

I was referring to the railgun and your MNC playstyle:

You will use up 150 bullets in SR before you empty the gunner's clip (if you fire both in one continuous burst). When you fire the mini in SR you get a slight spin delay as you mentioned then a slow firing speed until you fire 10 bullets (which still isn't very long). The best use for the SR weapon as a result is with EV and smartlink. Most players will not think very highly of you for doing this but it works very well.


And my question is why should the minigun be harder to use in MNC? It seems pretty well balanced at the moment when you consider everything else.

1st of all, no troll is going to use smartlink or EV. 2nd of all, I was offering a solution to everyone saying the mini should change.

Honestly you don't need the smartlink with the mini anywhere near as much as you need EV. And let's not forget that trolls aren't the best race to use with the minigun anyway. You've been wrong twice now in discussing shadowrun; I think you had best stick to MNC.

Long story short dev answered and said cool your jets.

This thread can now be closed.

Lol, you never played shadowrun. Troll with EV? What do you think is better with the mini, a dwarf? I KNOW you've never touched the game on even a semi-competitive level.

We all know Human + Minigun = Win. End of discussion.

I always preferred the Human with EV, Teleport and Gust/Smartlink depending on the map and enemy setup. Find/purchase a Rifle and call it game over.

Um , yea that was a joke. I used to run Human as mu primary race. Rifle, Gust....damn yo it's been a looong time since I played. I don't even remember my builds. Hold on ley me take this shot and think...

Glide was useful, smartlink and rifle was good oh yea! and trees! Can never have enough trees around! Man I really want to go play that game again...too bad I no longer own it. Trading games in is a bad addiction. thank god MNC is digital.

yeah, aweful hard to trade a DLC liscense to gamestop.

but if you actually went and tried it, i bet they'd think you were in desperate need of crack money. hell, i wouldnt even trade in a bad game. one, they rip you off, if your going to do it do it on amazon/ebay and get more than 25 cents. two, you always miss that game, which is why im reluctant to sell mw2 even tho i havent played it in a month and have instead been playing this and SFIV solid.

uberent, you do realize i like this game AND i have a tendancy to play a certain game i get into for years (or in mw2 case until everyone starts using the ump45 and thats the only way to play even tho there are 100 other guns and all underpowered). thats like at least one guranteed customer for MNC/DLC/MERCHENDISE/SEQUELS/ECT

as you can tell, i played c&c renegade (and its add-ons like APathBeyond) up until it was nothing but dutch sniping servers lmao.

Oh please, Glider + Elf + Rockets = Instant Jizzing + OMGZUPINTEHSKY moments.


Oh, and the SR wind up minigun mechanic seems like a decent idea imo, although I'm not sure it would be better than the current minigun set up as bland as the "Hold LT, go around corner, lawl spray" forumula is. It would essentially be a nerf to add complexity to the minigun, I'm not sure it's needed. Any class that's out in the open long enough for a minigun to wind up could potentially have killed the Gunner by the time the first minigun "speed phase" (no idea what to call it) is even finished, the reason Trolls with miniguns work so well in Shadowrun is because they:

1. Don't get slowed while firing a minigun, the Gunner is slow as a snail while firing a minigun


2. Are incredibly tough due to their stone skin assuming they don't get AMG'd to death or Sniped, the Gunner doesn't have this much health to spare.


...So I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, speed phase minigun would probably be a nerf and stuff...

I've made some of the best players rage quit. I'm usually number one or two on my team (just like MNC) and it's a rare day when I'm negative.

Dwarf with the glider is pure evil although that was not my setup. I did use a minigun/shotgun combo for my 100 games playing as a dwarf. If you want to kill a troll quickly there's nothing better than a dwarf with WR and a shotgun.

Also just so you know MNC & SR are both team games. In SR you can call out enemies for friends with EV using the controller (if you use the report function properly). Really you only need about 1-2 people on a team that have the skill (not necessarily in use). Most people who play SR will give you garbage about EV and SL being noob skills. I prefer to disagree if for no other reason they are the essence of the SR universe. Otherwise it's just a counterstrike clone and a primer for portal. EV is part of the counter to teleport/glider/gust spammers (which I know you know is about 90% of the top tier crowd). It's slightly cheap but you can equip ev, use it and replace the skill in under 5 seconds. This can save you a heck of a lot of time when looking for the last enemy.

People sometimes get mad at me for clearing bodies too... but unless we have a pregame clear agreement it's part of how the game was designed to be played. It's actually the best way to counter teams with lots of high essence players. Don't forget that most of the teleporting elite crowd like to attack alone so their bodies are easy to clear. Sometimes I go hunting for the best player on the enemy team before he kills several of the weaker players on my team. This is typically an elf so he is weak against a counter ambush.

As for who is better with the minigun... it depends on the map and who you are playing against. Most people will agree that you're an idiot for playing a troll if you are not on the RNA team and only the lineage team is trying to steal the artifact. Trolls with miniguns are great on about 3 levels and that's it. On these levels you can go all troll (or mostly troll) and obliterate the enemy. Most of the time you're better off using something besides the minigun. The shotgun/smg combo is less expensive to run and typically does more damage in a short period of time. This is critical when you consider that everyone is teleporting around all over the place.

I confess that I never really learned how to play expertly with teleport but I never really needed to be better with it (I'm decent). The reason for this is that as I said before almost everyone on the top end plays the same build. Why would I try to beat someone at their own game when my preferred playstyle happens to be the counter to their strategy? Half of the advantage of teleporting all over the place is that you could be anywhere. This is where the beauty of EV comes to light; you may not be able to catch them but they can't hide from you. If they have smoke equipped then the teleporters on my team will catch up to them because their essence won't recharge fast enough.

But let's talk about MNC for a minute....

I've played one game against you and that was enough to know that I don't want to play another game against you. You killed a member of my team within the first two minutes of the game by shooting through glass. He was going to get away and you decided to cheat to kill him. Hence I have no respect for you. Unlike 99% of the people I see playing tank, this guy was decent, so it wasn't your brother (if you even have a brother). And I seriously doubt you let your "brother" play with your xbox live friends when he's on your account.

It is hard as hell Pancaking enemies, atleast I find it hard, more luck involved than anything. The amount of times I'm flying with the jetpack and an Assassin or Assault charges and I slam and even when under me they get flung, this ends in a ring out but I'd prefer a pancake. I have flattend juiced players, it kills everything, but I have jumped of bridges, slammed onto bots and simply rolled off and then slammed, not much of a problem but on LazeRazer it ended with me going off the map. Another thing would be that the Gunner stretches his arms during a jump slam, for instance on Ammo Mule I'm on top of the centre point, I see a few players entering and want an ambush so I jump, slam and stop because my arm hit the edge of the hole, then I end up dropping down onto players minus a slam. Also the slam can be avoided by jumping over it but the death blossom can't, this is a real problem when the Tank is juiced, there is no way to avoid his death blossom and it's a one shot kill when juiced meanwhile players just bunny hop a Gunner and have avoided the only useful ability in that situation.