Grenadiers

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by mot9001, October 20, 2015.

  1. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    They seem to be incredibly difficult to micro. They usually get themselves killed when you dont micro perfectlty.

    What are your ideas?
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  2. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    They're ****. Just like T2 bots (well not all but I'll put that in a different topic). They only needed a small damage reducement or AOE nerf in my opinion. Grenadiers not shooting when retreating makes em pretty much useless in army's.

    The other hassle is killing turrets with em. They still have that march of death (I think? Yeah they do) so needs extra micro. Now with Titans it needs even more micro because there is a big chance that they'll get pushed into the range of a turret.

    I like the role of the grenadiers but there are too many details at the moment that are making em flawed.
    1. Fix the push units mechanic.
    2. Fix the march of death.
    Then talk about rebalancing em. If Uber gives a unit a specific role then they better be sure to make em perfect in that role. Thats not at the moment because of these above issues. Right now its basically a gamble if they fulfill that role.
    thatsonofabroom, ljfed and mot9001 like this.
  3. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    Also, if the grenadier doesn't face the enemy it won't fire or try to rotate to be able to fire......
  4. Alpha2546

    Alpha2546 Post Master General

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    Which is a possibility to give em that specific I kill turrets and slow units style of balance. Unfortunately its straight away a too big of a nerf for the grenadier. It was closer in the old style. If they want to keep it like this then I go back to recommending giving em more range.

    But then still the wonky mechanics that take place right now ingame isn't the way it should be and still gives em that gamble feeling(will they work or will they get pushed in by other units or are they gonna march towards the enemy and still get killed gamble situations).

    Everyone likes a unit with a clear role and clear mechanics. If I build some grenadiers to take down a turret then I HAVE TO KNOW that they will do the job. I don't want to babysit em (well not to much). If I check the range and know they should be able to shoot from that range without taking damage then they should.

    It could be a fun and interesting unit and right now its in the gutter. While I do think they were a bit too good before titans they were fun to use.
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  5. ljfed

    ljfed Active Member

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    Maybe the no firing while moving backwards was supposed to make them not so good against other units and their main use being to destroy base defenses (or at least I think this would be a good idea except for some reason they are not to good at killing base defenses either)

    I haven't really used them recently so is it a problem where they walk into range of turrets?
  6. pjkon1

    pjkon1 Member

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    Grenadiers kill turrets (or will once the "charge to minimum range despite being an artillery unit" bug is fixed). They don't fight armies. This is their job. You want to make grenadiers viable? Then make turrets viable.

    Grenadiers will be eternally either op (by virtue of killing units by kiting which can have no counter) or up by virtue of being the counter to another unit which will be forever useless because all attempts to make it useful will be met with a chorus of agonized screams about "encouraging turtling"
  7. ljfed

    ljfed Active Member

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    Also it would be nice to see them as a defensive unit on the new csgs because they can shoot down wereas other units can only shoot up.
  8. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    Yea i think the most troublesome with the grenadier is that they can't do anything without micro. If your grenadier gets attacked in the back, it will do nothing at all except waiting for death. This is absolutely bullshit, no other unit in the game that has guns does that.
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  9. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    Originally, the grenadiers were the best T1 units which are faster and out range the T1 tanks.
    And grenadiers can kite any other T1 units.
    Just mix some anti air, the grenadiers become main units of the T1 force.

    After Titan releasing, the grenadiers are nerfed.
    They are unable to fire the back.
    Thus, they can't kite other T1 units anymore.

    But they rush into the fire range of turret now, this makes them near useless.
    The original purpose of anti-turret is lost.
  10. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    Grenadiers are also good in the fact that they can shoot over infernos, negating their armor for the squishier tanks behind.

    It's not to be underestimated how good it is to have a unit that doesn't need a clear firing angle when fighting blob vs blob.
  11. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I believe the T1 tanks do a better job to kill the infernos.
    And the weapon range of grenadier is not so farther than the T1 tanks'.
    It is very hard to control the grenadier without getting killed by enemy tanks.
  12. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    It's not about killing the infernos, but killing the stuff the infernos are protecting without having to go though them.
  13. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    But the situation is still the same.
    The units behind the inferno are usually the tanks rather than dox or any other units.
    So basically you are using grenadier to defend the T1 tanks, and I don't know that can work.
    Tanks can one shoot grenadier, while the grenadier need to fire many times to take down even one tank.
    Last edited: April 17, 2016
  14. jackburton176

    jackburton176 Member

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    Just put those units on hold ground
  15. huangth

    huangth Active Member

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    I think this mod can help you to save the grenadiers.
    Cover the Line
    https://forums.uberent.com/threads/rel-cover-that-line.69314/

    Use this mod to control the troops,
    and keep distance between enemy turret and your grenadiers.
    This mod forces all the units run to the target positions with their fastest speed.
    Thus, it is very easy for players to micro the units.

    Even though, I still dislike to use the grenadiers.
    They are too expensive and fragile.
    And they are not cost effective against any other T1 units.
    Last edited: April 17, 2016
  16. frostsatir

    frostsatir Active Member

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    They should not move ahead when you say "attack". Its main problem which make them useless.Also increase range to 130 could help.
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  17. ace63

    ace63 Post Master General

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    I still consider this a bug, it wasn't this way before titans...
  18. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    Before titans grenadiers were the bread and butter of every army, now you basicly never see them.
  19. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

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    The attack move bug?
  20. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    That, and that they can't attack while retreating.

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