Greetings(HoN/DoTA/TF2 Fan)

I'd like to buzz in too;

As an ex-DotA player, HoN beta tester and LoL off and on player, I like the unique spine MNC brings to the table. It's similar, but almost entirely it's own game, which is good. Nevermind those sillies saying this is a TF2 clone, which we all know is far from the truth, but I don't want this to be turned too much into DotA. The aspects can be hanging off in the background, but the game's design is fine as is right now.

^This so freaking much.
As it stands it really only takes one, and one person to destroy a full teams defenses without any resistance. Juice gives you SUCH a higher damage output, more less HP recovery and damage resistance that if you somehow DIE while juiced, it was chances are a lucky ring out. Add onto this that most classes can bring everything buts a 3.3 Rock-It down in about 4~5 seconds each if not disturbed, and if juiced chances are only needs 1 second at MAX per turret...an entire base can easily be demolished thanks to a singe juice.

Also: who the HELL thought giving juice via a moneyball attack was a GOOD idea? Just...No...No no no. this pretty much CEMENTS that once a team gets a foothold, that's it, a total shutout right there and then. The other team can't even get any ground if they spawn with no juice and there are no more then 6 pros getting full juice bars every few seconds to waste on anyone foolish enough to jump down.

Engh. If you have six pros in your base pounding on your exposed moneyball fella, it doesn't matter if they're getting juice off it or not.

LOL!

Did you even read the thread? Or have you not played the game?

Buzzers just hump walls and occasionally annoy snipers. THAT'S IT.

And that's just one of your five-a-day-bots! I destroy bouncers immediately for breakfast!

Some major pathfinding coding is needed and some serious tweaking too to make these bots remotely useful. At the very least I'd love a HUD attachment that shows you bots YOU spawned and lets you cycle through commands to give them with a single button press to make them:

A) Attack players
B) Push lanes
C) Follow me
D) Stay (attacks anyone in say, 10 feet then returns)

That's all, how hard can that be to implement?

It is rarely wise to ask questions of this nature if you don't already know the answer.

In this case, you're actually asking for some reasonably complicated AI behaviors, particularly if you want them to path properly.

There's also balance issues with that suggestion. While I'd love to have a few bouncers occupy the middle ground with me on Ammo Mule, or have a half-dozen Gapshots casually marching circles in the back of Spunky Cola where they can't be shot, I think that might be a tad bit abusable.

Thing is, three of those four commands are actually in the game already. Pushing lanes is default non-spawned behaviour, attacking pros is default spawned bot behaviour (except gapshots and scramblers) and all you'd have to do is invert that behaviour and pacify bots for follow me. Camping would be more difficult to do.

And I'm not sure balance might be too much of a problem. If scramblers and gapshots are treated as normal creeps so they'll only push lanes, the rest can be taken down almost as quickly; the only difference is they won't charge straight at a pro and get stuck on a swarm of blackjacks to be beaten to death, wasting $100 because they're too stupid to detect enemy bots as obstacles.

EDIT: Besides, Buzzers NEED the pathfinding upgrade, because they're the biggest waste of cash besides long-shots on specific maps such as steel peel.

yes ive played the game, and ive read the thread. it seems like people are complaining that the human players are too powerful against bots/turrets, and that bots/turrets die too easily.

turrets, i agree somewhat, regarding juiced players. but i think most players are new and don't know how to play; as they learn out how to stop juiced players (grapples, ice traps, etc), randomly rushing in with juice is going to get a lot harder. i can feel the difference when i'm playing against experienced enemies instead of noob enemies, i have to be a lot more careful about when to pop the juice. overtime is kinda stupid too, but thats a different topic, i think.

someone said upthread that hitting the money ball gives way too much juice, and i tend to agree. maybe reduce the amount of juice received per hit by half.

about normal bots like blackjacks and slims, they're supposed to suck and be weak. that's how players get money. its already hard to kill good players, if bots became hard to kill for money, i can imagine in a 6v6 scrim between good players, people getting money at a very very slow rate because bots take too long to kill, and you're not gonna farm money off the enemy easily because they're constantly being overhealed all the time.

buzzards definitely need pathing improvements, and probably hitbox size reduction too. but for example, if i was a sniper in a sniper battle, i wouldnt want to waste my time shooting at buzzers when the other guy is shooting at me. or if the buzzers give them enough time to move up a sniper + assault/tank, so the next time i try to peek, i get railed/naded + body shotted at same time, im probably not peeking again, they've gained an important position, and the buzzers were probably worth it. also, not just snipers.

i can imagine a good team coming up with a strat keeping their bots alive as they push the lane. a sniper and tank rail gun can lock down one corner, a gunner and assault spam nades to suppress other corners, to keep the other team pinned in. all while their gapshots fire away for free damage, for example. maybe those strats won't work, but right now, so many new players just don't know what to do, i don't think they know how to push with their bots, they just run around and DM.

The primary reason turrets are there is to stop the bots from getting to the moneyball. Its way too easy for pros to get to the moneyball by avoiding turrets. It takes like 2 bots 3 seconds to drop the moneyball as it is. I really think the balance the way it is now is fine because the turrets are deadly to the bots.

This is the reason pros cannot drop the shields on the moneyball.