TA Spring implemented an 'auto upgrade' function for t2 mex using a simple constructor AI. Turn the mode on and then drag a circle over an area- the con unit will go and upgrade all the mexes to T2 within the area. It was quite neat to watch actually- although there were a few glitches that would need ironing out for it to be viable in PA (like the result of running the command with multiple cons selected- they would reclaim the other cons mex once it was done and start again- creating an endless loop of upgrading!).
I'm gonna go back to my original idea, which is "there should not be a T2 mex". 10 mex right now is enough to throw out a nuke every 2-3 minutes? I feel like 1 nuke every 2-3 minutes for only having a measly 10 patches of metal is a bit excessive. I mean really, why are we even fighting? There is obviously enough metal around for both of our peoples to survive and flourish! I don't even know what to DO with 30 metal patches. I could build, like, a whole empire of nuclear missiles with that. Gifts for all the children in the neighborhood. If we were restricted to 7 metal/second per patch, I feel like the fight for territory would be a lot more meaningful. Although I guess the auto-upgrade idea would still help. Certainly part of the problem is that if you rush to T2, your metal problems will be over very very rapidly.
No auto upgrades. I like having a powerful metal extractor and I like how you can just build over the top of the old one...perhaps make is cost a good chunk of energy to run..? Even half the energy that a adv PP generates. I do think we need a lot more units/buildings that consume energy after being build for ammo/running costs.
You're basing the future of the entire game on the play style of the BETA, it may be best to see whats on the horizon as far as the scale of battles. At some point nukes aren't going to cut it or the target will jump planets on you and you'll have to give chase. That will invariably cost more resources than T1 mex's will be able to provide.
I think Uber needs to ignore this entire thread. None of the ideas posted here are any better than what is already implemented in game.
I think its fine the way it is, why would i want to stop a mex from producing metal While it upgrades to t2?
I got one bether,let mexes be upgradble nothing bether and simple has that. No need send 1 or moore ,advanced engeniers, just to make 1 or moore advanced mexes, when he or they will probably be kill on the way,when send far away. Or iff he or they , pass by the battle, wy we need to wait 15 min that he arrive on the objective mexes, just to upgrade basic mexe to advanced mexe,this the worst idea i ever saw. I agreed send engeniers, to help assist the upgrade,not build up the basic mexe. Let be upgradeble and the usual consume( mass and power) for the upgrade . How hard can it be to understand! We already havent any tatic on this game ,i just see players play the same way has supreeme commander 2. Make some rush on begin,then stay home ,then art +nukes or anithing else from stay home. Really boring ...no tatical at all. Where all naval fight ...where all air fight....where all.........Ne too boring. This is a tedious micro,and a discourage expansion,like already some one have say!
I think tier 2 MEX contributes to snowballing. If I am winning then I can get to tier 2 MEX first, and getting up tier 2 MEX means I snowball harder. You can't stop me because my economy is being stored in an increasingly small and easily defensible area. It comes down to you needing nukes, artillery or a laser to get me, but if I'm ahead in the economy game and snowballing how are you resourcing that when you also need to defend against me? By removing tier 2 MEX you move to a system whereby the better a player is doing the thinner they need to spread themselves. It makes it easier and more realistic for someone to stage a comeback because a leading player is vulnerable to raiding and is under increasing pressure to monitor multiple points versus a player who is behind who needs to monitor a smaller space. It makes for a more interesting game and one where it's less realistic for a player to turtle behind their defensive line and start stockpiling nukes. As for concerns about "how would I afford X?" I would assume the game would be balanced around the resource units available.
So basically you want a "Handicap" to be applied to all players to force them to play a certain way? most of us here (im assuming) do not want a linier RTS = play this way, or you lose type game, which is exactly what this idea will do. your taking options away from players. players in this case should have the option to expand or not, not all players play the same.
Not to mention that if a player can take land, and then also develop it, it was uncontested and should snowball a victory.
That's plain wrong for several reasons. First, a T2 mex has a payback time. That payback time is way above the one of a T1 mex, while it doesn't replace a lot of T1 mex. I don't have the exact numbers for PA, but ie. in FA, a T2 mex worth only two other T1 mex, but with a payback time 12 times superior (225 seconds vs 18). I believe it's quite similar in PA (or can be made quite similar easily). That means that during that time, you can't spend the mass you've put in your mex into bots or tanks. It means that your enemy can possibly outspam you during that time. And he only need 2 T1 mexes to get back your advantage. Also, losing a T1 mex is trivial. Losing that T2 mex is practically game over. (we are talking of even players skill-wise). In a game were you have tactical missiles & bombers, it's not a trivial drawback. So going T2 is a important decision, it has a lot of drawbacks. You need to at some point because you can't expand further, but in PA, it shouldn't happen for a long time : T1 will always be more viable most of the time! (if done correctly). BUT what is happening in FA is that, at some point, it cost you more to protect a lot of T1 mexes (in term of brain-use & army management) While it's trivial to lose them, it requires a lot of brainpower to rebuild them all the time, and you can't spend that brainpower passed a certain point. So T2 mexes start to be a viable option. Because it's convenient, not because it's mass-efficient. And in a game like PA, it's even more important. The player that can keep up with that "T1 occupation" the longer will have a really huge advantage against the one who will rely on T2 mex. Some player can pull off some fast T2 mex upgrades and stay competitive. It's hard, but it can be done. It bring strategy & tactics to the game. It's always a good thing. I really don't get why this thread exists in the first place. It should probably be "How to get rid of the current tedious mex T2 upgrade in favor of a micro-less one", then we can agree
If you have a look at the stats you will spot that the adv. metal extractor is the same as a basic metal extractor *4. Its the same as building 4 basic metal extractors. The only thing I missed is that adv. metal extractors have 5* the health of a basic metal extractor. All advanced means is that you can look at you metal income and *5. Assuming your going to get an advanced factory at some point, then there's no risk at all.
Well they are probably too efficient, I agree. It works quite nicely with *2 ratio. About the payback time, not only you have to take the raw mass spend (ie. you could build 15 tanks for that mass), but also the fact that you have to catch up with the time : if your enemy was able to build 15 tanks during that payback time, not only you need twice the time to have the same amount, but as your enemy continue to produce tank, it will take you even more time to catch up with your extra mass generation. If a T2 mex is only 2 T1 extra mex in term of mass generation, while it cost 25x more (like FA), it add up to the fact that it's a big risk to go T2. (Most of the time, you can only afford it because your enemy just did a big mistake and gave you a lot of mass to reclaim). But the *5 health is inherited from FA, and it's good : It's already less efficient than T1 mass-wise (not that much in PA but it's fixable), you can't really afford to lose it easily.
But they're not taking land, they're redeveloping existing land which they already hold. The player ahead snowballing to victory makes for boring gameplay because it means the game is over a long time before it actually ends. I won the early fights? GG, because I can solidify that territory and there's nothing you can do about it, where as without tier 2 MEX I may win those fights but now have more territory I need to defend, so my advantage in units is compensated for by my wider territory span. Tier 2 MEX lead to passive RTS play because for a while a player stops expanding and focuses on consolidating their territory. This reduces active conflict and leads to people focusing on their nukes and super weapons. Players should be driven to conflict because this isn't a 4X. I should be driven to expand so I need more planets, need to roll over more opponents. And if I'm losing I want a way back into the game.
If a player can take and build T1 extractors on the land, then you go T2 and push him off the land. If the player manages to keep you off the land long enough to build T2 extractors like that, then you weren't even playing the game. This is the stupidest argument ever. You are arguing against your self, if you win the early grab, you have more territory you need to defend, and so attempting to develop it is very difficult.
It's not because you've manage to build a T1 on some map area that you will magically defend it while you build a T2 mex on it. It costs mass, it costs time, and so it costs you a lot of units on the field. It can easily defeat the advantage you just took. (I suggest you've read my posts for more details). It doesn't lead to passive RTS at all, it actually leads to Real-time Strategy, because it adds strategy.
I kinda agree with that you are saying, but when talking about it being a risk to upgrade it doesn't make much sense (with the current balance). The only down side with advanced compared to basic is that you effectively have to commit to building 4 metal extractors. It takes around 10-20 seconds to earn metal for a single adv. metal extractor (assuming you have 10-20 basic metal extractors). That's not much of a dent. It takes 42 seconds to pay for itself. If using the metal from the single advanced metal extractor it takes 42 seconds to build a second advanced metal extractor. If the reduce the out put of advanced metal extractors then it would have a little bit of risk. But in its current state the risk is nonexistent.
Actually no, because you develop your core territory first, and as you've expanded further someone needs to fight through more defences to reach your upgraded MEX. As you expand out you're already snowballing.
Then we agree entirely I don't know how it works in PA exactly, I have no real interest in playing the game currently, I was talking of the general concept of mex upgrade. The current balance is probably off, but the concept isn't bad.
That would still mean that one, you opponent hasn't done the same, and two, that your outer mex's are completely uncontested. If that's the case then you would win without T2 mex's easily.
