Get rid of Bunny Hopping

Geez another complaint about a working mechanic of the game. How about we just remove everything that gives you a problem to kill other pros (which you shouldn't be doing much anyway)? Quick scoping, sin lunges and now bunny hopping, among other things; Might as well take out weapons too! I hear they can kill people D:

Listen to L-Spiro's advice and actually come up with a strategy. L2TimeYourAttack and stop running straight at enemies.

Funny indeed. I place my hope in the dev team making the right decisions (as they have done so far) and not listening to your foolish complaints.

In other news, scientists have confirmed that the sun does indeed rise every morning... astonishing!

His argument is that he doesn't like how you can completely avoid a grapple by jumping. You can avoid ANY grapple by jumping. It doesn't make sense physically that you can't grab them even if they are a couple feet out of the air and it doesn't make sense as a gameplay mechanic that the sin can be easily countered by jumping yet can still be killed by any class in the air.

Though I can also understand the other side as well, most of the time this is an issue if the assassin is predictable. Sin's aren't supposed to be running around face stabbing people because you can expect them to jump at that point, they should be going for backstabs when the opponent doesn't see it coming. Also it is still VERY possible to grapple someone who is bunny hopping but it also puts you at a higher risk timing it.

I side with OP's side more but I feel like only a slight change should be made.

Their hit detection is horrible. I've smoke bombed a firebase, hit it with an entire clip of shurikens at point-blank range, only to have the entire second clip go through it without me moving or changing the direction I'm aiming in at all. One clip hits, the second doesn't. I find them even less effective on a moving target.

Unless they start hopping. Also, if they're blind, having the cloak on seems like it'd be easier for them to tell you're still around due to the noise. Dunno if the bomb muffles other sound until that ringing goes away.

I have that sense, more or less, but apparently it needs to be updated with "run away the second the enemy starts hopping".

Grappling's pretty broken right now as it is, though that's due to the last "patch". D: The concept of spending your grapple cooldown on throwing your target to the ground for half normal damage (if that) might be a bit easier to implement rather than a different grapple while airborne. It also wouldn't reward sins that chase their targets until they get shot in the face, as it would waste their backstab chance.

I do. I do. I don't. You're at least the fifth person in this thread to assume I automatically head-on charge-grapple anything that moves. :|

QFT, but lag can make backstabs either not register the first time, meaning your target starts hopping or turns and grabs you, or your backstab turns into a facestab, etc, etc, etc. Lag could still make your backstab turn into an air grapple or facestab, but at least SOMETHING would happen other than you bear-hugging the air repeatedly.

This, and also removing bunny hopping would make snipers retardedly overpowered. Half of my steam friends list is excellent snipers, and half the time I still get headshotted while bunny hopping and varying fall with jetpack, having to stay flat would make a 2 sniper team a spawn camp from across the map.

Also, with grapple, try timing it for win they land instead of spamming it like a noob. Chances are if they are bunny hopping you weren't being an assassin, because they know you are there, which means gtfo because you are a squish mitten.

The only thing being evaluated in this thread is bunny-hopping in terms of grapples. I will still look like something out of super mario bros if this gets passed. It'll just be for evasive purposes instead of anti-grapple ones.

I bunny hop against all classes, everyone has a good grapple. jumping also has the added benefit of making it slightly harder to hit with your gun(only slightly).

I have an idea.

How about allowing grapples up to a standard height. But ADD, get this, Countergrappling. If both people grapple at the same same time(one person grapples someone who is doing the failed grapple animation) while looking at each-other, a stale-mate grapple ensues. Both parties grapple timers are reset. I don't know if you would want to add damage/knockback/stun to this.
The secondary fire grapple is always reset, but the skill-grapple is used up if it is the one used to initiate the grapple. Smart players will know this and use it their advantage. The assassin would need surprise instead of timing to get their opponent. And skill not spamming would be used to counter it.

I was just looking for something that could please everybody(or most people, some people just enjoy being abrasive). Grappling needs a counter-strategy, people just seem to not like the current one.

Air grapples means assassins would basically be immune to knockback. They already have smoke bomb.

Grapple was fine until the last patch which has netcode bugs.

That's the idea, yes. You can still be grappled, but for less damage instead of a possible ring-out/backstab.

I have watched people hop throughout an entire match before. Everyone has grappled through people even though their timing looked perfect on their end. Fail mechanic is fail.

The ability to break/counter a grapple in progress is one I like, but it needs to be set up such that it doesn't allow someone to avoid being grappled every single time - as in it can't be a simple quicktime "press x to not die" event. It needs a greater level of complexity, but that means more opportunities for bugs.

Some kind of check would have to be implemented for that case. Air grapples are also a bit more complex and case-specific than a separate kind of grapple for targets that are hopping, and so wouldn't be as useful.

Try reading my thread to find the (multiple) parts where I mention how I do time it and don't spam instead of making generalized assumptions like a noob. :3

Want to know what my latest little gimmick was?

Remember how last time I ducked into the ledges at the end of the Ejector overhangs, causing the other guy to go in there from his end, but I had doubled back around going under the ejector overpass and entered in from his side, up behind him?



This time I started to lead a guy into that outer area again.
Before I lost light-of-sight with my target I watched to be sure he was going to go back there too. He was.
I used my smoke bomb in such a way that he wouldnt see me use it directly, but when he turned the corner he would see the snow and know that I had used it.
He started watching the skies, knowing I was about to come from above.

But in fact I had not moved. I simply cloaked in place and relied on a Level 3 Cloak + no movement to completely conceal myself. He saw the smoke and assumed I had jumped without looking too carefully into the smoke itself.
He started looking up and spinning around. As soon as he looked behind him to see if I was about to land there, I lunged and got him up the rear.


Bunny has hopping never stopped me.
If it is stopping you, do remember that grappling is not the only way to kill.
Repeated lunges are often more effective than grappling, and they hit people who are hopping. Lunge in, jump out, lunge in.
I promise you, the Assassin class gives you everything you need to kill anyone in the game.
Just.
Be.
Clever.


L. Spiro

This thread is not "qq I can't grapple people because I'm bad at sin"

This thread is "bunny hopping is a counter-intuitive counter to grappling that doesn't even work properly half the time." (unless the new patch actually fixed it, haven't tested it yet) (Edit: It didn't, still getting grappled at the highest point of my jumps, yay lag)

A lot of it has focused on the sin because I happen to play nothing -but- that class, so my initial examples were from its gameplay, and then everyone assumed the thread was me whining. Go go gadget internet.

What do I see when two supports come at each other? Shotguns and hopping. Snipers? Uzis and hopping (and traps).

Shorter formula for the above: <class without jetpack>? <Weapon> and hopping. <Class with jetpack>? They hover around with their pack, which is a believeable counter to being pulled down.

EDIT: Thought. Was the jump button easily reachable as well as both thumbsticks in the 360 version? If not, players there couldn't have spammed hopping like they do here while still being able to aim at their attacker.

Haha this was pretty much exactly what I was thinking while reading this, except I thought why not remove jumping, its OP, hard to HS people. FFXIV did it, successful?

Wait, how many people actually want to see this change?

I'm honestly completely impartial.

Do it like Modern Warfare 2 and say game isn't balanced for jump, in all seriousness: People who want to get rid of it need to get good.

Snipers don't have to come to melee range to headshot. They aren't in danger of being countergrappled/slammed/charged/trapped/etc. That's the trade-off.

This change is also game-wide, not class-specific. Inactive jetpack when grappled out of a hop = bouncer slam.

Assault autograpple? What? ;P

People bunny hop to avoid being caught by assassins primarily, i find. And it's effective despite being a completely brain-dead maneuver.

It's not a matter of skill when your method for avoiding a grapple can be replicated by strapping the keyboard to a drum kit during a dragonforce gig.

The grapple mechanics are a bit sketchy and that's the problem. Not so much the bunny hopping.

Bunnyhopping does help make a mediocre sniper's job harder, though I've seen a couple godly snipers (or aimbotters).

There are some snipers i can't approach without being shot - those are usually the aimbotters. Since i'm cloaked and at a distance. There's a couple that ruin the fun on our local server group.

In any case, bunnyhopping like a mad duck is the only reason a lot of people can escape an assassination attempt.