Get rid of Bunny Hopping

Which is why I would prefer some kind of quicktime event on both sides of a grapple attempt, the result of which would decide the outcome of a grapple.

The concept that's popped into my head is this: When someone grapples you, both of you see the grapple animation playing. I -think- that all grapples have at least two hits involved in them. Between the beginning of the animation and the second/final hit, both players involved would see a small bar begin to fill from left to right. Near (but not at) the right end would be a tickmark. Below the bar would be one of the keys they have their three skill bound to. By pressing that button, they stop their bar. The closer to the tickmark, the better. The result of a grapple would be based on the timing of both sides, adding an element of skill to avoiding a grapple, and makes grappling a riskier tactic. More importantly, though, I think a way to counter a grapple in progress would make the infighting more interesting a long-lived, rather than coming down to who can grab who first. A flubbed grapple might knock the attacker down, for example. As far as this concept making backstabs a moot point goes, if you're not expecting a grapple, you likely won't react in time to defend anyway with this kind of system.

There are many ways to go about replacing hopping as the counter, it's a matter of finding one that works well.

Something like that would eventually lead to grapples being completely worthless

It could, but I don't think it would make them entirely worthless. Also, considering how important surviving for long periods of time is, they're not supposed to be so integral a part of gameplay anyway. A perfect defense also doesn't have to mean a completely avoided/mitigated grapple. It could simply mean damage/throw force reduction.

Another thing I've considered, this would potentially be a decent way to get bad Assassins from facestabbing/chasing someone after failing a backstab attempt. As it is now, a facestab is a free 50-100% of the enemy's health gone, depending on their armor endorsement. If the enemy can expect that chance to defend and gets it, it tilts that battle in their favor.

References to real life have got to be the dumbest reasons for balancing games that bear no resemblance to real life at all.

The bacon mechanic is a direct pull from reality. It makes you better at everything.

On a slightly less serious note, believability is important in any setting. Books, Movies, Video Games. The assassin in the game is a master of acrobatics, I'm sure she could pull someone down a few feet in the MNC reality. A restriction saying that you have to be less than(normal jump height) so long as a jet pack isn't being used to be grappled is BELIEVABLE.

I don't look at this as a balance thing, I look at it as a believability thing. As far as balance goes, this wouldn't change much. Most good players can kill assassins without bunny hopping. And most good assassins get around it.

Perhaps I should say it's very counter-intuitive, then. If someone's legs are dangling in front of your face, you'd think you could tug on them to pull a non-hovering person back down.

qft.

This is pretty much another (probably more coherent) way of saying some of what I've been trying to say the entire time. Thanks, totally in agreement. Only difference is I get the feeling it'd be a bit unfair if you could still hop to avoid other classes' grapples.

Also...

"The assassin in the game is a master of acrobatics, I'm sure she could pull someone down a few feet in the MNC reality."

Considering the Assault can punch me how many feet at what speed? Yeah.

I think concerns of believability in MNC are completely ridiculous. The whole concept is unbelievable. What matters is what works, and jumping to avoid grapples works. If an assassin cant get a grapple due to bunny hopping, then tough titties. Go kill some bots like youre meant to.

Jumping to avoid grapples does not work. I get grabbed out of the air at least 50% of the time since the last patch. I get that lag can cause it, but that's a good example of why the current system doesn't work.

And again, the "too bad, don't grapple" argument - why would the devs give the Assassin such an ability if we weren't meant to use it? Hint: We are, just like snipers are meant to headshot.

Yeah, the patch has created issues. Thats a reason for a further patch to fix the bug(s), not to make a wholesale change to grappling.

I wasnt referring to you specifically (which is why I didnt quote you).

No other class gets a free kill by hitting reload and mouse 2. Deal with it.

If another patch can fix things, that would be great - though personally, I'd still like to see a bit more variety in how grappling works, rather than just "right-click for free damage/ring-out/setup for follow-up attacks".

Ah, sorry. The net's not great at conveying tone, so I heard it like some of the replies so far. Buhweeted.

I hear there's this class called a sniper that shoots you in the head, and they don't even need to get close to you to do it!

No, but seriously now. reload + mouse 2 != free kill. It equals a large amount of damage unless it's a backstab that registers as such and the pro isn't wearing enough armor to survive. Also, it's our main killing tool. Deal with it.

They need to aim.
Usually, it does. I used to play assassin.

They need to aim, we need to have it register as a backstab - it doesn't always register properly. This happens both ways for both classes. A backstab does usually end in a kill, but a facestab rarely does because most players pack armor.

I like the idea of being able for everyone to be able to grapple in the air, or maybe an "air grapple"?

That would also be interesting, but perhaps would end up being underused because of how specific the situation is. Perhaps limit it to classes with a jetpack being able to grapple differently while hovering? I dunno. Not a bad idea by any means.

A friend of mine had a good suggestion just now - grappling someone who's hopping simply slams them to the ground for a fraction of the grapple's damage, knocking them down and perhaps stunning them for a short time. Think like the Bouncer.

EDIT: You whore, get out of my internets. Thanks for the idea, too. Next time you go joining forums with different names, tell me. D:

How would that be useful at all for your problem, it would still count towards the grapple cooldown.

Anyone else find this kind of funny? When MNC first launched players were screaming for a counter to grapples. We told them to jump. Now that enough players know jumping is a counter to grapples the opposite side is complaining. I find it quite funny.

That's gaming for ya. Give people what they want and they'll turn around and gripe about it

I only play Assassin.

And bunny hopping has never been a problem. I have nothing about which to complain about the character classes.

If you are so easily foiled by bunny hopping, why not try another tactic? Assassin is unique in that she is the most tactical class.


#1: Cant grapple for X reason? Attack from a distance with shurikens. This allows you to hit them even while they are hovering! You may not always get a kill, but you wont die and the enemy will definitely be pushed to retreat if your aim is any good at all.
#2: Try luring the enemies. Anger them with a few shurikens and then disappear behind a wall. Time it so that as soon as they turn you will have smoke-bombed in their faces. Land behind with the cloak already activated and you win.
#3: Try being creative?
I once pretended not to notice a Tank walking up to me while I was killing his RockIt turret from a distance. I pretended to be caught off guard and ducked behind a wall, making him think I was going to use that back alley to sneak around behind him, as so many do.
Instead, as soon as I was out of sight, I cloaked and went right back to where I was. Like clockwork he went into the alley hoping to cut me off from the front, but I had doubled back and entered the alley the same way he did, and caught him from behind while he was throwing flames in front of himself hoping to catch a cloaked Assassin.



It boils down to just knowing when to approach and when to back off. This a just a sense that you develop as you play.
Assassin is very good at killing Pros in the beginning of the game but as they upgrade Assassin has no chance except in lucky situations. You need to be the type of player who can change your style according to the battleground.
Get any Pro kills you want at the start of the match, but slowly drift into a bot- and turret- killing mode.
Remember, not only do Pros get stronger as they upgrade, they also get wise to your tricks.

The tools to trick them are there, trust me. If you dont feel your level of creativity is sufficient, change tactics from attack Pros to avoiding Pros when they have upgraded beyond what you can handle.

Adapt. It really is simple.


L. Spiro

DeadStretch, this is quite a harsh accusation. When MNC first launched players were complaining that grapples were overpowered. This is a valid idea for a new player who does not yet know how to counter the tactic. They were complaining about Assassins and Assaults who can one shot them and it really took little skill to do so. Then after we told them the end all solution to grapples, it would only make sense for the people who were dominating before to get a little frustrated that their only tactic is so easily counterable.

And lets not deny that Bunny hopping is scarily effective. I'm not saying this out of bias, I use Support 95% of the time and I am willing to agree that it is so abusable. Air grapples would be cool but it would have to be bug checked like crazy just because I see a lot of issues going wrong with it much like what is happening now.

I'm not saying it counters the assassin because it doesn't. But I find it hard to believe that it isn't that big of a deal. I do not quite agree with the OP in a lot of regards but i do feel like it's something to be worked on. Even if the change is minimal.