Galactic Gates: A Universal Solution To Major Problems

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

As an economic structure, no. This game allready has high level strategy multi-planet combat. It doesn't need anything to make it more complex.

As a way to transport units quickly between planets, why not.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

as a way to connect distant systems, yes
- but not to build on every base world, maybe 1 per cluster, with transport travel between the local worlds

will you need a recieving portal?
- i hope so, dont like the idea of teleporting all over the place

as an economic system, no
- PA is not an economy simulator, if you want to play with and tweak economies, go pllay anno 2070, i want a functiona l economy that i can leave alone and manage my armies and formulate strategies and tactics, not micro manage an economy

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Doesn't defeat my point tho.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

And... I hate everything about this idea.

I admit, from a logical standpoint, it does make a certain amount of sense. But one you open the door on teleportation technology then suddenly you eliminate the very need for most of the gameplay elements that excite me about PA.

Paratroop Artillery, GONE, irrelevant.
Air transports, GONE, irrelevant.
Interplanetary siege weapons, GONE, irrelevant.
KEWS, GONE, irrelevant.

If you can easily open a teleporter to dump your units on any planet I fear that every other form of interplanetary interaction is going to become irrelevant. Even if all that other stuff exists I seriously doubt that anyone is going to bother using it because teleportation is just way too convenient. Logical as you may find this idea, I feel it would ruin everything that makes PA AWESOME!

And we certainly wouldn't want that now would we?

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

What was your point then? That there are inconsistencies in the way that gates are used throughout the previous games? Perhaps you could tell me how you build the Support ACU in sup com and FA then? I'll save you the trouble: You gate them in via a T3 quantum gateway. I don't mean to come across as hostile but I don't see why you feel the need to question how much I know about supreme commander and TA. It's pretty much irrelevant. In fact, if you read other posts I have made the majority of them draw on my experience from those games but whatever.

Moreover, I feel you have missed the heart of my point and simply tried to shoot down my comment for kudos. Throughout the different games developers have used the gates in the manner that suits them best according to plot or game mechanics and this is no different a situation. Simply by using the gate in the way I described and limiting it in this way it provides a convenient and workable solution to an issue that seems to have cropped up in several threads. And face it, there have been some pretty horrendous suggestions made and this is one of the better ones.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

-and expensive. Yes.

And yes, you seem to have missed my point which is that the transmitting gates (at least the ones in TA) has the ability to teleport apparently anything to anywhere.

What I proposed was that if you have a receiving gate the teleport would be much cheaper than if you have to teleport to where there isn't one, in which the teleport would be considered much more expensive.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

my complaint about this idea is right there in the title...

"The Universal Solution To Every Problem"

Which is precisely what I hate about it. This is exactly what it would end up being. It would replace everything else and ruin the game. Once you open that can of worms, once you start talking about teleportation than it's all done. All those other beautiful and interesting modes of transport all go right out the window once teleportation is available. It's just too convenient.

It is much more interesting to me to just chuck a constructor/commander into space and let him coast quietly across the vast void of deep space until he reaches his destination, decelerates, lands and starts up a new base.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Yeah, I have that problem with it too. Which is why I suggested it's only used as a late game means of moving units between held territories. It has nothing to do with economy or any of the other superfluous notions discussed by the OP.

I think the global vs local economy question has been done to death as well. For the most part it's old hat and covered in other threads for that matter.

And get there when the rest of the game has ended?

So basically saying I don't know what I'm on about and then taking my idea further and suggesting that single gate teleport should also be an option? I disagree, but that's just my opinion. If you can use an open ended teleporter to send a large quantity of units to a hostile planet (no matter the cost) then how is the defending commander supposed to defend against a hoard of units that could gate in at any location in his base at any time. Hell you could gate in a few T3 assault bots right on top of his commander and take him out in less than a few seconds. Game breaker.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Then why not make all the other modes of transportation be cheaper per unit.

Example: Sending a rocket with the commander on it would be much cheaper than first building a gate and then using a heap of energy to teleport him.

"Transmit gate -> middle of enemy base" would not be feasible at all with many units and as I suggested, it could even alert the enemy with a warprift like vfx.
It would be a suicide mission and a damn expensive one of that.

Alert in good time with a warning and an appropriate vfx would do.. the commander would have ample time to get out of there and move his forces to the same spot. xD
Hell, how do you even know where the enemy commander is? There is fog of war you know, and if you are scouting out the enemy commander you probably have a well equipped invasion force ready anyways.
"a few T3 assault bots" would cost you a lot to teleport thus it would take a good amount of time to charge up..
Also, if you can do that then you have probably out economized your enemy anyway.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

And there's that assumption that cannons and rockets have to be slow. Ultimately there are three factors for how fast you can travel from point A to B in space.

Life Support
Maximum G tolerance
Acceleration/Deceleration

We are machines. We don't need no life support, moving on.

We are machines, we have ridiculously high tolerance for high G acceleration, moving on.

We are machines, we are highly advanced and have extremely powerful rockets and cannons. Speed is much less of a factor than I think most people are assuming.

At least in the context of inter system travel, speed should be quite reasonable. And for any of you busting out the physics equations to start estimating just how fast we realistically can make those trips without worrying about G tolerance don't bother. Here is where I draw the line for realism. Just worry about AWESOME! thanks.

Now for interstellar travel, to other systems, yes speed becomes more of a factor here. But in the context of a "battle" this shouldn't be as much of a big deal. And even in big crazy complicated multi-system battles all this really means is you need to build bigger rockets. Relax.

Don't panic.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Honestly, the whole idea of the gates IMO is just to allow the game to keep moving in the late stages. The idea is for cheap, quick and effective movement of large quantities of units between controlled territories (read planets, moons, asteroids etc.) and allow the player to respond to new developments in a manner that won't mean that if an attack occurs on a colonised planet on the opposite side of the territory he has to load up his main fighting force on to a conventional space transport to get there because by the time that he arrives his previously friendly planet will be a hostile base.

Once you grow beyond the nearest one or two planets, managing your units and territories will become a longer process until something like a galactic gate can be employed. Not being able to respond to attacks is one thing, but the speed of play is another. I know these games are meant to be long. But if I am going to play a game for 24 hours I don't want to spend 12 of those hours waiting for my units to travel conventionally through space in transports. I exaggerate but you get my point.

I really feel that in the spirit of TA, which I feel was always about combining the standard RTS elements with the outrageous (think buzzsaw), that high velocity means of travel between adjacent planets and moons such as the much discussed unit cannon and commander rocket are adequate for their purpose. After all, the robots in the videos have personal shield/rocket pods for re-entry and I assume minor vector adjustments. Anything further I suggest gates. I think we really need to think of better, unconventional ways to get troops onto adjacent planets. That is what these games have always been about: Taking a barely believable idea (like the unit cannon) and making it work.

I've never suggested that gating on to an enemy planet was a good idea.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Neither did I, tho I stand by that it should be another option for lategame.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Exactly, I think the gates idea is great for getting across extreme distances, since spaceships is taboo in PA apparently. Though the schism that seems to divide this thread is that some think it will be tier1 within the first few moments of the game insta-win kind of thing. While the other side see it for what it truly is. Which is 1 option for late game quick transport. It would never be mass unit into a base insta-win type of thing, as there should be teleport blocker/stealth tower for balance but are expensive too. I think there should always be multiple options as every level of the game. That way it doesn't devolve into the typical rush to make bldg A-> then B -> C then win. I'm not sure if the one way teleport would be easily balance-able but I alwasy thought it would work along the following lines. It would take at least say 2k of energy per unit + about 50% more than the total coast of the unit for a connected teleport, unconnected would be at least double if not at least double + distance modifiers. Oh did i explain that unconnected would also be VERY blatant on enemy help worlds, come on you don't think ANY sensor wouldn't pick up the massive energy/distortion that would make. So basicly VERY expensive. Almost prohibitively expensive until you have a rock solid economy. I know this won't change the minds of those who are dead set against teleporting or semi-closed economies but hopefully it makes some think instead of just blindly hating.

EDIT: spelling

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Thank you, you understand.

**** can be both tweaked and balanced people! Strategical options like this one is paramount in a game like PA.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

I like this idea. Resource connectors should be relatively feasible, even in smaller games. Ideally, something about equivalent in cost (purchasing power adjusted =P) to the TA fusion plant or the Supcom T3 fusion.

Not really spammable and rather expensive for a starting economy.

The unit teleporter should be similar to a supcom experimental or TA krogoth in cost, if its a gate-to-gate teleporter. Maybe it could be the cheapest experimental since it is useless if there's only one of it.


The one-way teleporter is a game-ender and should cost likewise. Similar to the Aeon resource hax buidling or the rapidfire strategic artillery (from which faction I can't remember). Something that you might see one of in an entire game and if it isn't destroyed soon, wins it.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Don't like the idea of a complex economy(TA did it best, no reason to fix what isn't broke), but teleporation could be a good option as long as it didn't overshadow all the other methods of travel.

Maybe gates could be very expensive and limited use(only so much population allowed to pass through before expiring) and covertly dropped onto worlds?

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

I don't think this is the only solution, but it is a good one.

The current one I see working with the game they have envisioned right now:

-just to do things the old fashon way and send units to a new planet like you would send units to a different part of a map in old rts games, and start a base from new.

-Make your resources shared among all your bases of course.

-If you wanted to invade a planet, either CREATE an orbiting station to invade with masses of units from, or DESTROY the planet in whole if it is so heavily enemy-owned that it can not be breached.

-There looks like there will be several ways to colonize in and around planets, and/or destroy planets. If an area can be contested, you can contest it by "owning" and "moving units" through space up to the area and then engulf it until it becomes yours, or you can destroy it if it is impossible to obtain.

-Then there will be the wars of defence vs offence. Building defences enough to completely make a planet uninvadeable. Building offences capable of breaking into a planet. Building defences enough to withhold any doomsday planet-destroying weapon. Building offences capable of destroying the planet. Whoever can push the hardest will get the desired result. Then you do it again and again, planet after planet. Sounds fun.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

Here, people are assuming that a player being able to expand to the point where occupying an entire planed with a force effective enough to destroy all attempts at landing is a likely event before the game ends. If planets are large enough locking down an entire planet should not be likely, and the issue of invading planets goes away.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

this needs work, don't confuse it with "i think this is terrible"
[problem time time]

1) good as long as it is a separate from troop gates

2) it does but adds the problem of 'how the **** do i get to an enemy system'

3) the upside is it encourages the hunt for rare resources, the downside is it really encourages the hunt for rare resources way before needed

4) while discouraging that, it encourages finding the enemies main planet/base and all there gates when they have few and destroying them leave them stranded in there own territory with little or no resource income to fix it

5) just the interplanetary engineers should build this only because if the commander can build this or has that mini one you talked about, then he would be able to teleport out of combat area back to friendly territory, just imagine the but hurt that that would cause because you cant kill the commander. and to your balancing of the interplanetary engineers, a better way is to just allow them to build only orbital stuff and the gates, while regular engineers build everything else

6) no surface gates, 2 gates per system max. both space, only one can be for troops, and only one for resources.

7) i don't think it will make planetary invasions any easier only because you some how have to get to the enemy planet, then you have to build the game. If the enemy isnt blind he/she is just going to blitz the gate kill the interplanetary engineers and the gate wasting your resources.

8) i refer you back to 6

9) also back to 6

10) brilliant

11) again brilliant for the late game, but im going to have to refer you back to 4

[general thought time]

in the list above i stated i only wanted 2 gates per system (#6), that would be per team, so for a contested planet there could be a max of 4 gates (in a 2v2 team game (assuming teams share resources from a planet/system)).

i believe that using the troop gate should cost you resources

in order to solve the problem i stated in point 4 and 10 (this will also solve 7, and my dislike of surface portals in 6, and 8, and 9, and point 2, and 3 (in the early game)) make the gates a tech level 2 (if there is only going to be 2 tech levels) and put in drop ships and troop interplanetary transports as tech level 1. the troop transports will allow you to get from system to system (problem 2), without the gates thus not stranded if a gate is destroyed (problem 4 and 10), however in will be slower (fixing problem 3) and cheaper in the short run, while the gates will be fast and be faster in the long run. Both would be able to ferry troops around the system/planet way more efficiently, and more balanced, then the gates (8 & 9, QED 6 solved). If you read the post linked you get the solution to 7.

Re: Galactic Gates: The Universal Solution To Every Problem

It could be likely. They could make a larger unit that you can make with a large base to shield a whole planet. They could simply cover the ground in medium combat units that swarm you for touching land, and multiple bases across the resources of the planet.

Either way, if they did this, just destroy the planet. Then they need anti-comet lasers and/or enough of them to effectively hold off doomsday attempts.

If they weren't advanced on the planet enough to build planet-wide defences like whole planet shield or planetary anti air cannons or several pre-invasion orbital stations to attack invaders, you can still come in and try to kick down the front door, fight them off the planet slowly one resource at a time, and keep the planet contested.

It sounds good to me. I would not be hurt with teleportation either. Besides, game can be moded, we can probably have teleporting added or removed by our preference.