For Backers Only: Megabot Experiment

Yes, large transporters are awesome! This definitely supports the masses of regular units. No megabot, please! Give us mega things that supports the little ones!

I don't really think making super units 'passive' is a great idea. Neither is making them limited for some arbitrary reason. A passive, hobbled megabot isn't awesome. The only limitations i'd say are appropriate are the build cost, time to build and inability to be transported off a planet.

Super units should be just that: expensive, big and heavily armed and armored titans of death and destruction that can single-handedly wipe out armies of lesser units that are unprepared for it. They should be able to wade into battle unsupported, but won't last quite as long as opposed to being supported by an army.
They wouldn't be indestructible, and with enough effort can be effectively countered, as the experimentals in Supreme Commander are balanced.

Megabots are also the perfect mechanic to force people to scout and attack enemy bases to prevent them from building megabots, instead of turtling and building lots of overlapping defenses and shields.
Of course, if both players are turtling, then both pretty much need to build their own megabots to counter their enemy's.

Another good role for megabots specifically, is planetary defence. They could be a part of a counter to 'asteroid bombs', and maybe even thwart enemy landing attempts. Kind of like the ion cannons in Star Wars, only mobile. You can have geosynchronous defence satellites and ground-to-space defence cannons, sure, but the megabot's role will be to cover any blind spots in it.
Since space engagements with spacecraft are not in the scope of this game, megabots would give an interesting dynamic to planetary defence.

Bloody damn!
Now that's a huge bot :shock:

It would be nice to see more mega units , but one think that really was a problem when I played with my mates was that in the end you would only mass exp-units and nearly totally ignoring the normal ones..

I know that balancing is a pain in the a**, but try made I don't the term "forcing" a player to have escort units some how. Maybe a hinting like the specific unit need AA support and maybe some unit's around it to protect it.

Howdy, Lurker here

SupCom experimental wars sucked...took a lot out of the game for me personally. This was mainly because they replaced every other unit.

Just my 2 cents as to how to stop this:

1. Make it possible to only build one experimental unit...make it very powerful, but limited in number.

2. Since only one experimental would be available, it would of course be expensive, and maybe have a set build time...say 15 mins..?

3. You could make the experimental modular with a limited number of hardpoints. So the initial 'robot/tank/whatever' is just basically a chassis with basic firepower...you could then maybe have a fixture bay that you could take it to and have the fabbers build the weapons one by one on it. So if your opponent is using predominantly air against you, then you would build mainly anti air on it...if it is mainly a sea world then mayby a sonar and torpedoes and some 'floaties' hehe.

4. This would make your experimental...actually experimental. It would also make it unique because you have custom built it and if you focused just on one area..ground attack for instance, then it would need support for anti air/sea. If you made it suitable for ground air and sea, then maybe it would be a lot tougher then a regular unit, but would have limited firepower (see slightly more powerful then a regular unit) against most units.

5. You could build a non-combat experimental that way if you wished to. Eg: ground, air or sea builder that could also have radar or transport abilities.

6. Your could alos make the fixtures to it irreversible, so if you build the wrong one, then you are stuck with it unless the experimental gets destroyed or sold.

Anyways, just a few Ideas from my experience playing strategy games. Probably not what everyone would like

I like it. Go with it.
A giant robot to smash things with? What's not to like?

I've always liked super units, but my biggest worry is it becoming a race to build them. I don't want them to be a game changer, more like just a good add on. Also, you can have them be built by themselves like a builder would build a building. They don't need to be built in a factory. That way you don't need a special factory just for it, and you don't have to worry about scaling it to the size of the tier 2 factory. Just my two cents. Keep up the awesome work.

Like

One thing that seams to be repeated all the way through this thread is no one wants a tech race to the unit(s) to win.

From the scale i would say its good.

But if you want to implement some kind of Superbot i would nail it at that scale. Not bigger in my opinion

On a side note if you are going that way, such superbots could be build like modular. I mean

You build the Core, and over the Core of that Superbot you can choose what type of movement.

Movementtype:
Tracks = For more HP but slower and less maneuverable
Legs = Moderat HP better mmaneuverable then Tracks.
Hover? = Less HP but faster and high maneuverable

Right Arm:
Shotgun: short range, high damage
Plasmagun: medium damage with splash
Laser: Longrange, no splash, medium damage

Left Arm:
Shotgun: short range, high damage
Plasmagun: medium damage with splash
Laser: Longrange, no splash, medium damage

Shoulder:
Tactical Missile Launcher: Long Range, nontracking, high damage Missile.
Swarm Missile: Medium Range, multitarget tracking, low damage.
Rocketpod: Shortrange, high splash, medium damage.

Something like that.

But only for that Superbot

personally i think as long as the pathing is done well and you can have large armies of high tier non massive units, massive units are completely unnecessary and just lead to a lack of high tier non massive unit usage. i think it would be much better if it was more like starcraft where there isn't really a massive super unit but there are interesting unit combinations. there are exceptions like i think the unit cannon is awesome because of all the mobility and strategies it opens up(although i do think that it would be better if you could set rally points from your factories to it and then have the cannon automatically send them places unlike sc2 where it was a factory(of course you would have to make a way to stop people from spamming peoples base with units to do damage with some sort of defense))

Very nice !

First look is " Hi guys, i'm heavily armed and here to kick your *** !"

Love it

Second look : i feel strange about the guns on the waistline ! Something's wrong with it...

I think units like this are strongly dependant on the strength of the concept behind them. What I like in a super unit is not massive weaponry, but massive defenses, the ability to just tank anything once and keep going, Godzilla style.

Visually I think broader feet, more asymmetry in the weapons loadout, and a strong face would make this worth the time and effort to add to the game (if not now, then later on). Laser on one arm, missiles over the opposite shoulder, and a bunch of machine guns in the head is the kind of armament pattern that makes sense for this guy. And the most critical design requirement is that it makes you chuckle maniacally at the thought of driving one into your opponent's base.

From a gameplay and balance standpoint, relatively weak weapons and slow movement would fix the potential issues. At that level nukes, asteroids, and other superweapons will do more damage, so making a mega bot over into a defensive or armor-focused unit like TA's Sumo is a sensible move, and smart players will likely use superweapons directly on the bot anyway.

If this kind of unit was to be deployed in the game how would it be built? As it looks much too large to be created by any of the other unit builders.
It might be cool if the parts of it had to be built separately and then assembled afterwards maybe?
Or if it had to be brought to battle by some kind of large spacecraft? (though that may throw up other issues)
Though considering that all of the units haven't been finalized I guess this could be solved with the addition of a larger unit creation building, possibly specifically for the creation of these Megabots (Uberunits? ).
Just a thought.

I like it but I do not agree with other people saying you should only have one of them per planet. If you have the econ to mass produce why shouldnt you be able to. Or would you rather me absolutely spam to the absolute unit cap and send hords upon hords of units to your base instead of 10 or 20 of these.

Overall I like it.

Yes, I would. I prefer hordes of varying units which each serve a role than 10 or 20 of a single kind (or 2 kinds) of mega units.
The problem with strong mega units that are simply bigger stronger units is that at some point the player's economy will get big enough to support just pumping out those. That'll make the game all about experimental spam, like SupCom was in long games.

Blah blah bad supcom player blah T1 blah rush blah ranked, there, done it for you so you don't have to.

That's slightly less of an issue here, because the super unit is then stuck on that one planet.

Still as big an issue, as the battlefields will mostly be ON the planets, not inbetween. If each planet separately has mega unit spam, there'll still be mega unit spam.
It'll only be very slightly less of an issue (still an issue) if there's local economies.

I can See it now You on the other side. Me with 10+ Factories set on infinibuild Pumping out units none stop supporting the mega in an endless line of units heading to the front with no end at all. And another factory set aside for building megas and supported waiting for the one mega to go down and build another one right away. That is the plan If I cant mass produce. I can just cover the planet in one giant autonomous blob.


But seriously I would rather be able to build more than one per planet. I think of them more as a mobile point/air defense system for my bases. Protect my bases with the Mega unit and attack with the regular ones. Fills a purpose.

I'm abit late to the discussion i see... guess thats because i only check once a week or so these days.

The size is good. Question is should they be transportable, or not? Might be a big backdraw for even getting them. Actually it might be a good thing that they cannot be transported. The size of that robot should be maxed that way. Other experimentals or megaunits should be either just as big, or smaller. As long as it doesnt become game enders like supcom experimentals ( this is pretty much the fears of everyone summed up) but still be viable to build, i dont see a problem in adding this type of unit to begin with. If we had cheaper but smaller super units that would also be a good question to add.

" Will i go for the huge high damage tanky mech or go for the smaller, yet more agile and faster, with medium firepower assault megabot? "

Many questions and opinions can be put here. But you guys wanted to know in the first place, scale. Is the scale good? Yes it is. Do we need to make it bigger? Not really. Its size fits the field of battle and does not dwarf the normal units too much. Yet seeing more sizes for different megaunits would've been nice. And different platforms. Like a megatank. Experimentals who fit different roles would be nice too. Like a experimental sniper which is really damn slow and big, but has to stand a way off to be useful. When enemy units get close, it would be rendered useless due to its field of fire.

Take your time UberEnt. I like what i see.

Honesty, my favorite unit was the Experimental Assault bot. It was so cool... But, by the time I built it, and it walked within weapons range of my enemies base:

1 - I had already repulsed several attacks from said enemy.

2- He was at 1/2 health from bomber

3- I pumped everything I had into making him.

They key to my refraining from making Experiments are, mainly, the speed. If they are slow enough, most people might feel that "quicker" methods are more "economic."

Its the called the "economic principle of decision making."

(Caution, over exaggeration to follow)

If it takes an hour to make the thing, and then another to get it within weapons range, most people would rather spend one hour duking it out, and the next hour building a base on the conquered territory. UberUnits should be only practical for friendly games where Epic over rules practicality. Where over kill is called for to humble your arrogant opponent... "Eh, you can't hurt me. I could build an army to wipe out your base, but I'm just going to sit back and let an Uberunit do it."