Fire arc limiting

It wasn't really your idea that bothered me, it was the statement about automating everything. It would certainly be valuable to set units to rush over to assist a point under attack. Having some units always stationed at defensive position and others always at the ready to rush in wherever needed would be great. It would also make two-pronged attacks more effective.

But this is straying off-topic.

The trick being that it should be possible to attach not just a big gun to such a marker, but also factories for example, making them automatically position their units in that direction, preferably near the edge of your base.
And possibly the system's automated alarm, so that it sounds louder when units come in from that direction.
And probably a dozen other things. But, like I said, that requires them to be a very integrated part of the game controls. If you don't go that way, a simple 'give a move order to limit fire arc' would be enough.

That could be accomplished through factories with multiple waypoints.

And the two ideas are not mutually exclusive! Why not do both?

The problem I have here is with "limiting" the fire arc.

In all games, and more so PA, the fact that you will only ever be attacking fron one are or one direction is setting yourself up to fail, and with Sperical Maps on PA this is even more so a risk.

That's why I like just setting a turret's default orientation, it gives you the benefit of keeping your turrets ready for the "expected" attack, but still gives them the flexibility to work beyond that one area/direction.

Mike

Both would also be great, but that doesn't change that markers would have to be done well or not at all. I don't think this game can afford things that aren't thought through.

Also, I'm assuming there will be factories with multiple waypoints. The advantage to the marker is that it makes controlling the factories easier. You could always have the marker on your screen, for example, something that can't be done as easily with a random stretch of terrain. (Although the picture in picture view might help in this regard) You can also drag a marker around the map, automatically updating the waypoints for all attached factories, as well as attached firing arcs for guns.

Anything you can do with a marker, you can do without. It'll just take more work, probably.

It's always easy to overrule the fire arc again if you set it up wrong. Personally I think that putting the gun in a certain direction by default with the option to adapt it if need be is more effective then setting a default orientation and then realising that it still spun all the way around to aim at some kind of scout when an attack begins.

Besides, juding where the attacks are going to be coming from is a strategic decision. Being wrong about a strategic decision isn't much a problem. Losing because you knew but your guns didn't care on the other hand, feels really stupid as a player.

And this would only be for the really big guns that take a long time to spin around. Small guns would have a default direction, but would definately keep the option to turn to anything in range.

Maybe the firing arc would have a prioritizing function instead of a limiting function then? It could always be optional.

What I meant was having a system where factories would send units to multiple destinations, not to a single destination with multiple waypoints in between. Sorry I should have been more clear. I wouldn't assume that would be in the game as to my knowledge it's never been done before.

If that;s the problem limiting fire arc is supposed to solve, why not solve the actual problem instead of using a stopgap measure? IT would be more useful to have a better system in place for handling targeting then as it benefits everything(as in units and turrets)? For example, in FA units have a bad habit of prioritizing T1 PD and T1 AA turrets the same, so wouldn't it be better to change the targeting system for land units to prioritize AA turrets after (almost) everything else instead of forcing the player to pick out the units attacking the AA Turrets and re targeting them manually?

So....you agree then?

Mike

Definately in favor of smarter unit targeting, but you'll still run into the problem when there's only one target in range which can be targeted and the gun will try to target it, which is exactly the behaviour I want to avoid unless said target falls within the specified area.

Not if I can make a strategic decision that the attack will probably come from point A, and then when it does I find out I lose anyway because my cannon decided to chase a scout and is now aiming in the opposite direction and I couldn't have done anything except baby-sit my cannon better.

Otherwise, probably? I'm not sure what I'm agreeing with.

So in order to avoid the issue of a turret(very vague no?) targeting a scout behind it(again vague) and potentially ruining your defensive setup(how was it setup again?) and being "forced" to 'babysit' your turrets......by using a system that locks your turrets to within a set fire arc, which would actually force you to 'babysit' all of your turrets should the attack come from a different direction?

That doesn't sound like a big improvement to be honest.

It doesn't help that you're being very vague in terms of the actual details of the setup, things like the basic base shape/size, what kind of turrets and where you have them and where this mystical scout unit is in relation to your base and turrets....

Like for example, this shouldn't be applicable to AA turrets at all, they should already have a decent traverse speed purely owning to the fact they need it to properly target aircraft, but if we're talking about an artillery turret, it begs the question of why it's targeting a scout to begin with right?

Mike

Assume a game like Total Annihiliation where you have a Big Bertha pointing 180 degrees in the wrong direction because it felt the need to shoot an engineer building a metal extractor on the other side of the map, or something along those lines. With your base somewhere along the center of a map.

Also, fixing a turret's firing arc isn't babysitting, it's a strategic choice. Seeing your opponent coming in from a completely different angle and being forced to update your plans at the last minute isn't babysitting, it's a strategic failure (and/or clever maneauvring by an opponent)

And yes it begs the question of why it was targeting the engineer. I would say, because that's the only thing in its current range. How are you going to set target priority so that if there's only one target on that side of the map you don't attack it while if there's one target on this side of the map, you do?

(And no it should not apply to AA turrets, nor to anything like a light laser tower which can spin it's gun around in under a second, nor even to a guardian

To beat issue discussed you need some kind of "base overmind AI" which will control behaviour of all units at certain location. I mean, as long as you have autonomous AI for each turret, problem is unbeatable without strict arc limiting, no matter how prioritizing is implemented - via move command or via warning marker. Single scout moves into range and all turrets start rotating towards the scout, even if it's moving directly into t1 pd and dies in 2 seconds afterwards.

While if you have some more "social" AI that is aware of other allied forces around, slow turret may decide not to bother with scout as there is enough other forces to deal with him.

That's very interesting, but hard technology to implement. Without it only arc limiting will help or micro your forces to prevent scouts moving into range of slow turret from unwanted direction (as distraction). Anyway - either very smart base-scale AI or more micro. While I would like to see smart base-scale AI I fear that UberEnt hasn't enough resources to make it right. And that's a thing you should make right or not make at all.

So, well, I tend to agree with fire arc limiting for slow turrets as only viable choice.

Planets are round. Turning a gun 180 degrees, given a big enough gun, puts you back where you started. An entire globe can be covered with less.

90 degrees then. There's plenty of cases left, even if we have planet spanning guns, where you just want your big gun to point in a certain direction and not deviate too much.

Indeed, there is a real issue where a big enough gun can point multiple directions to target the exact same area. Having a preference is important to determine whether shells approach from the east or the west, north or south. A slow turn speed does not matter as the gun can reach any target with minimal turning.

If a gun is small, then it needs fast 360 targeting to cover its area. Fire arc preference is going to make little difference here. A simple "arming delay" can render a preference completely moot, as the first gun facing can be given the same delay no matter what.