Feature: Engine: Amphibious water transports

I should add I got the idea from Civilization V, where every land unit can 'Embark' on to water tiles, naval is still an integral part of the game because embarked land units have no offensive capacity and diminished defence.

It may be a turn-based strategy game but I see no reason why the idea shouldn't translate to real-time.

I am kind of against this. Where I can understand it is nice, makes things easier (something this game could very well need) I really like the ideas of dedicated transports. Maybe a combination of the two? all units can traverse water at 1/10th full speed, or you can build a transport which moves quicker than most units could on their own.

I really like the idea of having the water being an impassable barrier which can only be passed using either air or naval transports. Adding a ferry system (like SupCom) would make this quite easy to use. Units turning into boats at the coast would only make the water "an unsafe area" instead of the "can not pass" it should be.

That is currently a design goal. Part of the issue with previous games was it was hard to extend the "walkable" area without getting hacky about it. Trying to fix that.

Care to explain why 'it should be' that way other than a personal preference for it?
Tradition isn't a good enough reason to keep do something the same way.

A lot of people bemoaned the move from the transports of Civ IV, to the embarkation mechanic of Civ V, but it streamlines things to such a degree you'd have to be mad to want to go back.
Unless of course what you were actually pining for was Civ IV remake instead of a sequel but that's another issue.

I am sorry, I forgot to add enough "in my opinion"s.

Further elaboration:
I believe it should be this way because it has been this way in SC and TA. This game will be very similar to those games and therefore, in my opinion, transport and the blocking of paths by water should also behave the same way. I have always found impassable water to give me ease of mind, since I would have to look out for transport planes/boats, and not hundreds of normal units transforming into boats instantly. Another reason I believe transports should be required is that you could prevent the opponent from passing water by destroying their naval and air factories. If units can simply transform into boats, this will remove that ability.

I think that theme should apply for all of the navy.
Bigger and badder (i know badder is not a word. )

So your argument boils down to tradition then?
It has always been thus so it should continue so...

This one could be seen as tradition, but is mostly preference, since I have played games where units can transform.

This cannot be seen as personal preference, this is simply statement of fact. If this is better or not, is indeed preference.

I'm with thapear, I want water to be an obstacle where you can get the jump on your opponent with superior planning. The ferry system from SC1 makes it reasonably simple but still requires work.

If you simply allow all units to become boats when they hit water, you might as well allow all units to become helicopters when they hit walls

All this of course is only IMO

Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been donated to bring back an old "feel".

So in this case, tradition is a more than valid argument.

Rise of Nations is often referenced as one of the best RTSs ever made. If you didn't play it, you might not know how well the system worked with the context of the game. It streamlines a lot and keeps the focus on macro rather than micro.

Also the nostalgia of how something felt in 1999 never feels the same way when you play it in the modern context.

Like Goldeneye. Who needs two controls for aiming and moving anyways?

I like the water transports idea, but unlimited units in a single transport sounds meh.

I also think that, considering these are futuristic robot war machines and all, they should be able to walk right into the water, and across the ocean/water floor...just very slowly, thereby making transport the preferred option.

plus, the water wading suggestion would be taken care of too! :twisted:

I imagine an army of units suddenly appearing off the beach for sneak attacks, naval and transport ships being bombarded from below.

larger naval types could be equipped with sonar to let them detect underwater units, and equipped torpedo style missiles that could attack your underwater army....as well as maybe subs which obviously would also be undetectable with no sonar, all of which would give everyone a really good reason to even have naval units, since some do not appreciate it.

Until they're crushed by the pressure.

but...lo...gravitational differences between planets seem to have no effect... :roll:

Do you know that for certain?

i suppose you got me there :mrgreen:

Thank you so much Neutrino. Having real water transports that can load and unload quickly and realistically has been a dream since I first played Total Annihilation 15 years ago.

I think it's really going to make naval battles much more interesting by introducing beach landings of far more units than an air transport could carry, that is much more resistant to air attack. Given that water transports have much less maneuverability, speed and effective map coverage, they should definitely be made to be stronger than air transports. You won't be able to defend against transport attacks simply by stocking up on AA and air-to-air fighters.

Imagine being able to unload about 30 small T1 tanks, or 6 to 8 of the largest T2 mechs on the beach per transport, dropping them just shy of the shore and having them crawl up the beach under fire from beach defenses. It's gonna to be really cool.

In terms of implementation, there's no reason this transport can't work exactly like air transports in Supreme Commander with automatic ferry points. They could also work with ferry waypoints as first-class entities if that's implemented. The units should automatically walk in the transport when loading, and run out of it easily when the transport door slams on the beach. It's gonna be nice and easy to use.

Or you just have each unit turn into a transport and save a lot of money and time with the same effect. >.>