Factions/Unit Set

The gameplay of Chess could be improved by adding flashing lights.

Oh, and factions.

Sorry, my sarcasm detector is in the repair shop. Y/N?

what thought process brought you to the conclusion... that makes you think what you've said, is actually an appeasement?

You are missing the point. One Unit Pool, Many different Commanders (about 100). Because of the way the Kickstarter has been structured, because of the way the game itself was funded there is literally zero chance of Planetary Annihilation having more than one unit pool at release.

I'll say that again; because Uber have to make over 100 unique Commanders due to the backer reward system set up by Uber for their Kickstarter, there is literally zero chance of Planetary Annihilation having more than one unit pool at release.

That is a fact.

Yes, that was sarcasm. Saying adding pretty lights and do-dads to units makes gameplay better is just a dumb argument. If that argument were true, then it'd also be true for Chess. My post was just highlighting how silly the concept was by actually applying it to Chess.

It is a law of the internet. No matter how deliberately stupid and over-the-top an intended sarcastic statement may be, there is always someone who will take it at face value.

There may or may not be multiple layers of meta here.

It's called Poe's Law. A sufficiently satirical statement is indistinguishable from actual extremism.

Thank you! I knew it had a proper name, and it was gonna bug the hell out of me if I couldn't remember it.

Technically, you didn't

Well, there's known knows, known unknowns and unknown unknowns. He knew there existed a thing (the concept), but didn't know the precise nature of the thing (the actual name for that concept) that existed.

But I don't think anyone is in the mood for an epistemology lesson.

Yeah, they also saved a lot of money by not building a full-size Mavor's statue out of pure gold in their office.

There is no point for me to respond on this thread any more since all you think that unit outlook and actions(shooting, moving) has no impact on gameplay at all. While I explained it earlier how important it might be in particular situations.

It was also said on this PA forum earlier that there is no concern for newbies.

Finally stating a scenario is only possible if someone has an "attetion of a gnat" or that Uber would save a lot of money by not building a statue of Mavor from pure gold are surely not arguments, but ignorant manner.

Personally, I'm all for having a 10ft solid gold statue of Jon Mavor erected in Uber's office.

The man definitely deserves it. So do all of the team working at Uber in fact.

I think Factions would be great.
I understand why they are not implementing them (money is a good reason).
There aren´t many RTS with a single unit set, so I guess this is a opportunity.

After reading through this entire thread, I will add some feedback as I have played both Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander:

• Factions are not a necessity, but it is enjoyable for the player to feel connected with a particular faction. For example, the Horde and the Alliance, the Core and the Arm - it's nice to support a particular faction.
  
• If the lore states that there is only the best technology available (so that every bot is the same) then it isn't too much of a problem. A lot of us connect with the lore more than others, so obviously factions are more appealing.

Edit: I'm sure money can't be an issue anymore - they made so much through "Kickstarter" and then they were selling the Alpha on Steam for a extremely high price, surely they would have enough to fund another faction? I'm slightly confused, how much would that even cost them?

gunston while you may have good points on the rest of your post you are wrong about the money. 2 Million is nothing for developping a game. + a full orchestral score plus deals they have to work out to edit themselveses the boxed sets + a lot more stuff.

A dota type such as lol can rack up 600 000 000

Starcraft, I forget how much they made but you get the idea.

You think it's a huge amount of money, it's actually not. This game is directed at a public with very specific and uncomon tastes. And it is not running on much.

Ah, sorry, I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes down to expenses within the gaming industry. Fair enough then!

Yup, things like the Statues, Art books(the Physical ones in particular but the book still needs to be designed/written as well), Pewter Figures, Commander Flash Drives and the Documentary all cost money as well. That is the thing about Kickstarters is that you have to be VERY careful with the rewards you offer otherwise you could end up putting more into reward fulfillment as opposed to the actual project! Also things like the KS and Amazon Fees, which averages around 12% last I heard, can be a fair bit as well.

But as Neutrino says, PA's budget is beyond just what the KS raised, Uber themselves are also footing part of it, and we have all the Pre-Orders/Early Access(also keep in mind that any purchase made through steam Nets Uber less than a Direct Purchase after Valve's Cut) have also been contributing what I imagine is a fair bit since the KS.

Also for some reference, SupCom reportedly had a Budget around 10 million and had "publisher support" for what it's worth.

Also something to keep in mind that Art Work is actually pretty expensive, especially when you already have 1 faction, and need to ensure that your 2nd, 3rd, or 4th factions are all very visually distinct(assuming Cosmetic Factions, there are even more headaches for Starcraftian Style Factions like balance) from each other and everything. Not that it's impossible to do, I'm sure every single person at Uber has at least one idea for a 'faction' but you need to wager ALL the pros and cons. Having more than one faction make make it more "enjoyable" for the player, but whatever was cut in order to make multiple factions happen might make things even less enjoyable as well.

It's all a great big balancing act when you're under the pressure Uber is, they have a very small budget with which to make a rather large game, they need to get the most bang for their buck, we already know about many of the ways they are accomplishing this;

Veteran Team:
The founding members of Uber all came from Gas Powered Games, where they created SupCom1/FA, and prior to that some like Neutrino(Jon Mavor) Himself were with Cavedog and created TA, basically they are the stars of this Genre, no one knows it better.

Procedural Planets:
Handcrafting maps are expensive, just like creating new units for factions but with the added headache of creating them to be balanced as well. While there is a lot of effort needed to create a Procedural system on this scale, the returns are far and away beyond the same effect put into hand crafted maps.

Galactic War:
Originally there was no plan for singleplayer aside from offline AI skirmishes, but we hit the required stretchgoal so we get Galactic War, a Procedural Territory Control game mode not dissimilar to RISK. While it doesn't have the same type of story element a regular single player campaign might have, it does have several other benefits, as as technically near infinite replayability along with allowing the use to craft thier desired experience, some might want a smaller galaxy they can conquer over a weekend, other might want something that'll take a month with thier clan helping out.

Single Unit Pool:
Basically as argued by me, there is only a single unit pool, the goal beign that while we all have the same units, we'll have a much broader selection of units to use at any given time, allowing for similar levels of variety as seen from other games with factions.

Large Commander Selection:
Unlike many other RTS Games, TA-style ones actually already have a purpose built 'Avatar' for the player in the form of the Commander. Uber being the classy brains that they are realize this and plan to offer a broad range of Commanders for players to select from giving arguably better variety than from 2-3 factions to choose from.


There is a lot at work behind the scenes, but if anyone is to be trusted with a project like this, it's Uber.

Mike

I would like to point out that we don't know how much money has Uber collected since the end of KS.( it might be 0.2Mill or perhaps 1.5Mill).
Taking in to concideration the fact that: Graphics in Pa are simpler then in Supcom, there is no campaign and that having only 2 factions opposed to three is cheaper ,Uber might have enough resources for a second faction.

Finally it's up to You , Pa players( or futer Pa players) to decide what you think is the best. Don't bother with Uber's finances since we don't know what they are and it's not Us who decides if certain ammount of money is enough for certain game features.

Let me give you an exammple.
Let's assume that You really like the polices of the political party x. However You know that most likely Your party will not win the election.
Will you vote for party x or other parties?
Most people in Your place would vote for party X.
And this is what You should do.

You're not voting for a political party bodzio97, you are trying to argue (and failing spectacularly) the cons of a single faction while embracing none of the benefits, nor reasons that Uber chose to adopt a single faction.

You are flying in the face of the wisdom of a well seasoned team, with a lead designer with over two decades of game design experience under his belt.

I trust Jon Mavor's thoughts and arguments over yours, not only because they come from a more reasoned position logically, but also from a place of greater experience.

Unless you can prove empirically, with data to back it up that adopting a single faction design over a multi-faction setup, is better for the artistic vision of the game, then you don't have a leg to stand on and sound like a child demanding what you want.

Seeing as Jon Mavor is the creative lead on this project and it's his own vision that he's trying to realise, I'm going to trust him over you in practically any and all cases.

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Whether Uber has the finances to make a second TecFaction may not be the point. I'd hope that Uber has the artistic integrity to stick to their guns and keep on track without the distraction of multi-faction development.