Explosive Shots - This nonsense needs to end

THIS is incorrect. The explosive rounds do indeed go off on every target hit with the bullet.

I think everyone can agree that this is a viable fix that doesn't nerf the Sniper's power too much.

I got killed by a base camper on Steel Peel once because I spawned and jumped down into a group of my bots the second the explosive round hit, and you know what the first thing to go through my mind was? It was "Oops, better go up top and try to push that Sniper back into his base so my teammates don't have to put up with this!" Full disclosure: I am a Sniper, and I regularly shoot my own teammates to help them out with pesky Assassin grappling and Hurt-gunning Support players

If there is a Sniper worth his salt on the field, you should be treating ANY groupings of destructible targets as a deathtrap. The Sniper should usually be the first thing on the field you try and suppress. Look, I understand where you're coming from with stackable explosions and all, but AoE explosions aside, in no game is it ever a feasible strategy to go out in the open amidst unchallenged Snipers, thinking that you'll be okay weaving and jumping around to dodge bullets all day. Unfortunately, that's what many top level players think they can do because they were able to get away with it for so long back when the game first started and Sniper players were still learning how to be effective. Hell, a few can still get away with it while going up against teams with unexperienced pub room Snipers who can't aim well. Much of this behavior stopped as soon as most Snipers figured out that they should have gold rate of fire to really be a threat to pros who aren't behind cover, but it still persists from higher-level players. This makes an effective Sniper seem even more frightening and even more unnatural since they are fairly rare, and when do spot one, you're probably already waiting to respawn.

When I first started playing this game, I would engage Gunners, Tanks, Assaults, whatever from a long range and start firing at them. My aim was far from good, but I did it anyway. That enemy pro would then turn their attention to me and proceed to head toward my current position, firing at me (and missing nearly always), while weaving back and forth, like they were going to reach me and kill me. Seriously, people weren't afraid of Sniper fire! Sounds like Sniper is the weak class, to me! I figured out pretty quickly, that the slow rate of fire was hardly threatening to most pros, so I upped it to at least Silver. I noticed that very few pros stopped rushing me down. They still thought they would be able to reach my perch and kill me before I or somebody else on my team took them out first. My aim was starting to get better. MUCH better. After awhile, I settled on gold rate of fire and starting going aiming for center mass, body shots, the place where I had the biggest chance of connecting with a weaving target. It scared a few pros away. So I started finding creative ways to use Passive level 3. I shoot enemy bots, enemy pros, enemy turrets with that Support player hiding behind the glass or my bots as they entered the enemy base, hoping to get some damage on that turtling Support player behind the glass just for being too close to my bots. I'll even shoot my team's pros to give them a level of protection in close-quarters combat that they couldn't have gotten any other way. Now, pros move when they see that life bar start going down (with the exception of Gunners post-title update; they CAN kill you long-range with the Minigun). My point is this: being able to cause AoE explosions is an integral part of the Sniper's arsenal because otherwise, people don't view him as much of a threat, but with it, even lower-level players can give people a reason to find an alternate route to take him out. In its own way, explosive shot is like the Sniper's heal-hurt gun lock on/bunny hop.

To be fair, though, quick-scoping DOES make AoE clustering much easier when you're in close-quarters and are being pressured from all sides.

While I understand what you're saying, and appreciate the way you put it, I must disagree on some points.

Yes, utilizing it is natural. And, of course, higher level play would require such tactics to be effective. But, the thing here is multiple explosive shots. No one wants to get rid of it (well, not out loud in this thread, anyway). Simply get rid of the multiple explosions from a single bullet. Which, I think is perfectly fair, and in no way would impact your play.

Yes, the exploding shots need to be seriously fixed, if not COMPLETELY done away with. We're talking about playing a sniper, a long range precision killer. NOT an AOE lunatic! He's got multiple AOE Freeze Traps. And AOE Flak Bomb. And an AOE standard attack! His only thing that doesn't have any AOE is that frigging grapple. I mean, what is the Sniper bad at, at this point? He's small, fairly quick, got great range and a hit-box to kill for, an insane uzi, and enough traps to wall off a whole lane all by himself. He doesn't even have to hit you at this point. Just hit near you.

A: stay away from things that can be explosive-round-hit. then jump around a lot. at this point, the sniper you think is so overpowered will break down in tears and post a "i hate bunnyhop, i want CoD" topic, and in the wrong section most likely knowing the recent trend.

B: what they dont got going for them = surviving one lvl3 mortar, a face grapple (not even with armor against the katana), a shotgun blast, a string of shurikens, a lvl 2 charge from anything that can charge

C: they can juice really well off of turrets... until the update. after that, they might as well leave certain pros and turrets alone, they are just wasting their time even noticing them (unless your against a really bad team that repairs turrets like a city council does roads, half-heartedly and years after they actually needed it)

D: uzi < shotgun, assault rifle, minigun, jetgun... pretty much everything xept the katana and any low-armored frozen enemy.

You can stop crying as snipers get hardcore nerfs on the patch:

Ice trap only ensnares those who trigger it = ice traps severely nerfed.

Ice trap skill drain reduced = less nerfed, but still nerfed none the less after an earlier nerf.

Explosive rounds give less juice reward - I'll admit, that was needed.

That said, I'd hardly say explosive rounds are over powered. Remember - you have to pay to get to it, and that means they haven't paid to get to something else (depending on how fast they get it) like ice traps L2 or Flak L3 (making it worth it). Plus explosive rounds make a unique hit noise, so if you hear it, just dont stand by anything that explodes, or flank.

What is the sniper bad at?

1. Worst at killing turrets.
2. Tied for weakest class with the assassin, but the assassin has high mobility to compensate for this
3. Tied for worst mobility with support, but the support has higher armor to compensate for this
4. Weakest juice

Also, I don't know where people are getting the idea that the SMG is some fantastic weapon. It has poor range and accuracy, and even at point bank the only thing it can kill in one clip is an unarmored sniper or assassin. For heavier classes it takes 2-4 clips (still at point blank range). It's good for finishing off people, and with bacon it suddenly turns into the assault rifle, but normally it's not a good choice for an opponent with more than half health.

Sure, the sniper has a lot going for him, but he does have some weaknesses.

Assassin is definitely the weakest juicer, and support will be below sniper after the patch. The sniper has slightly more mobility and evasiveness than support because of a smaller hitbox and higher jump. I think it'll be just fine after the DLC. The juice gain was my only problem.

Eh, maybe. I would say they both have about the same killing power, but the assassin has to come within grapple range to kill, which is definitely a weakness. But the sniper doesn't have the ability to destroy half a dozen turrets in a single juice.

Wait, what? The sniper and support are both getting nerfs to their juice gaining ability, but I don't think I saw anything about changing how powerful they are when juiced.

That's fair, so the sniper has the second worst mobility. However, poor armor + poor mobility definitely make the sniper the easiest pro to kill.

The sniper has arguably the 2nd highest firepower in the game behind the gunner though. And I say the support will be weaker when juicing because you can't instantly regain full health anymore.

An easy fix that would solve everything: Don't let the explosive rounds activate off of allies. I think that is a small fix that wouldn't leave the explosive rounds worthless or nerf it too much.

I got my idea across in three sentences. Simple.

Oh, well if that's what you're talking about then there is no way the support has a weaker juice than the sniper. The hurt/heal gun has pretty much the same range as the SMG but you don't have to aim it and a juiced support can OHKO a juiced sniper with the shotgun

Not to mention that a juiced Support's Hurt gun can melt turrets.

Please? PLEASE?

1. Except that you can do it from very long range and sometimes you can't get close enough to their base (even as a gunner). Note that this might be fixed in the patch.
   
   Best hitbox of any class by absolute leagues.
   
   Sniper is faster than the support and you have ice traps to keep people away.
   

Although it's supposedly getting fixed..... bot/turret slaying for juice is ridiculous at the moment.

If you'd like to see poor accuracy then you should try a gunner without an accuracy endorsement. The smg has a tiny reticle and it reloads quickly. Even a bronze clip size endorsement greatly increases its effectiveness. With gold rate of fire it unloads very quickly.

You mean he Will have some weaknesses in the patch.

You mean more like severely balanced. No other class has a secondary after effect for any of their abilities.

I think I've been adversely affected by the skill drain exactly once.

You're more likely to die and then hear the unique hit noise as your corpse fades away. Please tell me any other game where a sniper can hit targets across the map with no scope? I rarely ever play anything besides gunner but it's a joke to no scope bots when you have your passive skill fully upgraded. Penetrating bullets.... Ok. But explosive damage that is not reduced by each target it hits is completely overpowered. Most games require a sniper to reload after each shot (single shot bolt action rifles are more accurate) or have a slow firing speed. This game lets you unload shots with devastating firepower at an incredible speed.

I'd say the explosive shot damage would be more fair if you could accidently kill your own bots with it. Another alternative (as others have pointed out) would be for the explosive effect to only hit the first set of nearby targets.

:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ubergunner, i think you clicked the wrong bookmark. you accidentally posted this in the MNC forums and not the MW2 forums. just copy and paste it there, that will fix it.

lulzzzz...

seriously now, i might agree with him on the explosive round thing, if the sniper wasnt getting a nerf already. no explosive rounds = every shot would need to be a headshot or snipers couldnt do anything.

Not even worth responding to.

You can body shot people, as always.

A juiced support can OHKO any one with the shotgun and now people are starting to use Acuarcy as there gold perk so they can OHKO some one from 10 feet away....real fun

No one in their right mind runs Accuracy over Rate of Fire. Either way, the Support doesn't need Gold Accuracy because the shotgun magically never misses anyway.