Economy

Re: Ecomomy

Did you try to lower the graphic settings? Now I don't know what Lobby you are using but if you are using Zero-K lobby it is just to go to the "Settings" tab and select "Low" settings there.
Zero-K is one of the more demanding games on the Spring engine and integrated graphics typically doesn't perform well in Zero-K if you happen to lack a dedicated graphics card.
Balanced Annihilation, XTA or NOTA typically doesn't demand as much of your computer or graphics card.

Re: Ecomomy

Yeah, it's pretty close to C&C. In any case, I played Warcraft 2 before TA, and I got used to TA's system easily enough. Remember that it came out a year before Starcraft, which means Starcraft's "standard" hadn't become as wide spread yet. The control system was eventually improved with Supcom, Spring, etc, but TA is TA. There's a lot to love about the game despite the odd controls. I only mentioned it because some Starcraft players that attempt to play TA often get confused by controls they aren't used to and singlemindedly set the game aside without bothering to actually give it a fair chance. Their own loss. :?

Re: Ecomomy

Perhaps. But why would you want to? The purpose of 2 separate resources is to function as 2 separate resources. Otherwise, it would be one resource. And no one wants that.

Energy played no small part in other games for distinguishing tiers, choking speed construction, limiting defenses, activating abilities, adding negative value to lower a unit's individual cost, and simply denying excess energy use. While ZK did a great job simplifying the economy, it failed to give energy any meaningful use beyond being a yellow bar.

Re: Ecomomy

Repair and ressurection (which is quite common) both rely primarily on energy, so that is one distinction.

Re: Ecomomy

Thanks. Glad you liked it.

Re: Ecomomy

If this is wanted for ZK all you have to do is lower the energy storage. However that would make balancing the economy and handling stalling more "annoying" not less.

Re: Ecomomy

Yeah, but that's kind of the point of energy. It encourages over building generators so stalling doesn't happen, and it encourages smashing generators to create stalls. That's not possible if it's given the same storage capacity as metal.

While losing excess energy is inherently wasteful, energy waste is never as deadly as metal waste. It may even be critical to keep the yellow topped off, depending on how many alternative uses it gets in PA.

Re: Ecomomy

The game makers decide what the point of energy is. PA could have a system with no energy storage at all.

You are just presenting your view. Your annoyance with ZKs system is a relief for someone else.

I do think that energy should have bigger importance than in ZK, TA and SupCom.
In all those games powerplants rarely presents more than a target of opportunity and some lost powerplants can usually be rebuilt quickly without losing much production at all.
Except if you are using Singularity reactors or Moho geothermals in Zero-K*. They are real strategic targets and games can usually be won or lost depending on their destruction.

Edit:
*Those powerplants blow up like nukes. Having them in your base is a serious hazard and gamble.

Re: Ecomomy

Yes. That's why I started my argument with:

because metal and energy functioned like different resources and each had their place. That appeal is missing from ZK.

That would be strange! It would only serve to limit construction, which is mostly redundant because constructors already have an inherent limit on their spending rate. It would screw over weapons and abilities that use energy, since they are more reliant on having some kind of reserve.

Re: Ecomomy

I simply think "annoying" was a bad word since it makes it easier to balance the economy in ZK.
Energy is a very different resource from metal. Typically you need lots of it to repair, charge shields, cloak your bots, cloak-fields, resurrect, radars and overcharge your mexes.
It would be easy to lower the energy storage to make the game less "annoying"(by your words) forcing the players to balance their energy expenses more carefully and perform tedious micro to avoid stalling, turning stuff on and off.

Yeah. So once your guns start firing you would have to chose what takes precedence as your energy is limited and you have none in store. Do you build units, fire your lasers or power that nuke that you are building?
Units that would need large chunks of energy to fire could simply drain energy as they charge like stationary t2 and t3 artillery in SupCom.

Re: Ecomomy

That is a great analogy indeed. Do you have any tips for playing RTS games with a streaming economy? I've always been a bit naff at them.

Re: Ecomomy

It bit of it comes from practice, but when building something big and expensive I make a mental note of how much of my resources are piled away in storage. If, for example, the thing I want to build is eight times as expensive as what I can pay-off instantly, building it will probably stall my economy.

This is very important when you need to keep energy up for radar and shields, etc. Mass/metal isn't as important (I'm not saying it isn't important at all) as things keep working, albeit at a slower speed.

Re: Ecomomy

I tend to be rather german with my spending.

I still have excess mass coming in? time to spend it.

(Generally I end up having -1 to -10 mass a second, and then have my engineers start reclaiming the battlefield to have the extra mass pump up my production.)

However as Bullet said, try to keep excess energy, as it is easy to generate and you need it for shields, radar and artillery.

Re: Ecomomy

:shock:

Re: Ecomomy

It's a way of saying very, very efficent.

Re: Ecomomy

Ah ok thanks for your explanation. Its an outsider so i couldnt know it.

Re: Ecomomy

200 players would be like 200 units. Will be early game in PA
Never saw a online FPS with 4.000 players online on the same map (a big 2v2 in FA).

Re: Ecomomy

Build more tanks.



Other than that, never overstretch on energy. If you start tanking on energy, halt all production except for power generators until you are back in the black.

Also be aware that if you are running at a large mass deficit, you may find that any upward spikes in your mass income result in you stalling on energy. This is because your energy production is fine for say 60% of your intended production, but when reclaim puts your production up to full speed it drains your energy accordingly.

In general, never run out of energy, always claim as many mass points as you can as soon as you can, and reclaim anything remotely valuable.

And build more tanks.

Re: Ecomomy

There's little difference between how you should play with streaming or non-streaming Economy.

You want to be producing about as much as you're bringing in, regardless.

The main difference is that you start building earlier with a streaming eco, rather than waiting for the resources to build whatever it is you want.

A mod should edit the title of the thread... ecomomy makes the PA community look dumb xD