Doxes are Overpowered now (with VIDEO as PROOF)

We'll see if you still say that after you 1v1 @elodea or @reptarking

I was one of the best before when dox were high apm niche but at least then they were not this op. I almost don't want to use them out of just disgust

The Overpoweredness of Dox Spam (with video)

I won my last EIGHT games, yes 8 games, with my team using largely Dox spamming (as in, 95% Dox spam, the rest being a mixture of just a few tier 2s and other units).

In fact, just 5 mins ago, I had this 4 vs 4 game which was hilarious. Our team had like 150 factories churning out Doxes nonstop, and we set many of them on patrol, which destroyed all their Mex until they were forced to enclose themselves in a very small area spamming like 60-80 turrets.

Here is the PROOF of the entire battle: http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=189796

At least, they thought they would pull through, but with all their external Mexes destroyed, their efficiency fell to 15 - 25%, while over the course of the longest, more gruelling 15 minutes ever, my team produced a rate of 150 Doxes every 3 - 4 seconds, and we sent waves after waves of units, so much so that not even their tactical missiles, Shellers, Vanguards, T2 and T3 laser turrets, with 40+ Bumblebees were able to handle.

Sure it took like 5000 - 8000 Doxes in total, perhaps, but we totally wiped them out eventually, and I knew in my mind, that in all 4 of the remaining players, they were probably thinking at first that "yeah we can do it", but over the course of the most intense 15 mins ever, they were probably thinking then along the lines of "WTF, when are these waves of 150 - 300 Doxes ever going to stop?"

Watch it, http://pastats.com/chart?gameId=189796 , you all will get what I mean.

Depends on if you classify Planetary Annihilation as a 'Major' RTS.

Can u show the video the replay function doesn't really work for me.

*sigh*
Can't we just all stop freaking out about every single damn ****** <3 <3 balance change ?!
[paragraph redacted]

Dox were useless.
Now they fulfill their intended role nicely. A bit too nicely maybe, so they might have to be nerfed again.

What's the deal ?!

so dox's can shoot air?
sounds to me like a step torwards bringing the stinger back but with lasers instead of missiles ..

Yes they can, but it is rather weak unless the planes are not moving in mid-air.

which imo does makes sense to have that way ... that way they are a pretty good counter against gunships or slow aircraft but not as efficient against planes .... IF they would indeed bahave like planes and not like vtols/harriers

Uhm. Disregarding the success of the initial raiding, your opponents then went and put most of their resources into defensive structures. These towers against dox ... overkill doesn't even begin to cover it. Not to mention the tactical missile launchers.

This doesn't prove anything. Just that they overreached and had their metal extractors raided, and quite frankly, they had nothing to defend themselves with against the dox rush. After that, superior economy wins; no matter what you throw at their defenses, you're going to whittle it down.

I like the direction Uber is going with the Dox changes. However they went too far or need to increase the costs.

They made a bunch of big changes and didn't change the costs.

Sometimes it seems like Uber doesn't even play their balance changes.

Easy example. Why are nukes still so waaaaaaay over priced?

are they? i think 35k metal sounds rather fair assuming the the stats on PAmatches are uptodate
and not to forget that they are still assistable ..

I think that the aircraft are hard to balance speedwise because then they'd move across the map too fast, perhaps an armor value? As gross as that would be, it could work and it would make sense that ground units don't have the proper weapons for dealing a lot of damage to aircraft.

RCBM has the "Cobra," I think that's it's name, which is almost exactly that, if something like that was added into the game, it would certainly help with the dox-spam issue people are complaining about.

armor value conficts with WYSIWYG ...
also who says that dox AA will be constant ... and not just a temporary thing?

I can see how speed could be hard to balance. But if they're more useful, you just up the metal cost or reduce their damage a bit.
I'm not a fan of things which go against wysiwyg.

If something is capable of shooting both land and air, then it comes down to cost. Units that shoot both land and air shouldn't be making the bulk of your army. They should be so expensive that they are significantly out performed by an equal metal cost of anti-land units (vs. land) and/or anti-air units (vs. air).

The idea that one of you main cannon fodder units can shoot both land and air is a little ridiculous.

Have you played Total Annihilation?
The basic cannon fodder Bot in TA could shoot at Air units, but because Air units moved quickly and didn't usually hover (gunships/slow transports excepted) then they missed almost all of the time.

It can work just fine. Just because something fires at Air and Land doesn't mean it's worth twice the metal, or is twice as effective. Pot-shots should simply miss most of the time.

I agree that it's possible to make a cheap balanced unit that can shoot at both land and air. What that unit needs is a slow turret turn/pitch rate and a bit of inaccuracy. You also need to keep it's range low, otherwise it will shoot at units as the pass over the horizon (something TA didn't have to consider).

The problem with all of this is that it takes you in the opposite direction that Uber seems to strive for. They take there turret turn/pitch rates and make them so fast that they become insignificant.

It feels like brad has something to do with the balance of the dox >.>

Increase field of view was a good idea. But 150 is too much. I think 100 may be good, 'cause of their speed. Targeting air units is a bad idea too. Uber should change it fast, all the players will start to spam Doxes and "Planetary Annihilation" will become "Doxes Invasion". Ahah joking

But also, thanks about the Vanguard balance, the last thing I want in, is Slammers AoE. Not as Levelers or Shellers for sure ! Levelers AoE is 10 meters and Shellers is 15 meters. I guess 3 meters or 4 meters AoE should be good for Slammers. I really want it because all the T2 tanks units are doing AoE making them really awesome for units battle. I'm okay about no AoE for T2 bots, except Slammers. ( I mean, it is the main-combat bot. ) Slammers must be able to kills groups of T1 units faster, but not kill T2 tanks units.

These Slammers changes may be a bad idea too. I just wanna know your opinions, guy.

I forgot ; Sniper bot buff : 400 ---> 550 damages. Tell me what you're all thinking about this.

But we're here to talk about Doxes.

Well, Doxes are too fast to build with a cost which is not enough expensive. ( With these new changes ) Amphibious Doxes is a good idea ! But underwater mines are to reconsider I guess. Buff air units may be usefull in the case that Doxes will not be nerfed. ( Not a lot, just a little more. Not about damages, more about 5 or 10 % more health )

Excuse my bad English. I'm talking you with using google translation when I'm in trouble.