Don't Confuse FUN! with Balance...

I can definitely respect that.

And to add to it though, as an assassin, even when you see the traps you technically can't disable them.

I think overall thats the big advantage.

And if the sniper sees the assassin coming, all they really have to do is face them.

Remember, its to the snipers advantage to trade frontal grapples.

And if the assassin tries lunging, you can grapple them during their lunge.

Besides, based on your example, isn't it weird that a close range class would have the opportunity to close the distance on a long range class, but, if the long range class sees them coming (eye to eye) The close range class should flee. Thats a clear sign as to who has the advantage.

If a sniper was aiming at an assassin from range and the assassin spotted him, would the sniper stop and flee? Nope, the assassin would because the sniper also has the advantage there.

Do you agree?

Assassins can charge supports, gunners, and assaults. I'm not saying that its the smartest move but,with skill I have killed doing exactly that. The gunners slam can be leaped over, the supports shotgun can be timed and dodged, and the assaults charge can be dodged. This is because, although difficult (and sometimes stupid) the assassin has a counter to match their counter.

But I never rush trap camping snipes or full health tanks. I call that re-spawning. lol

Good question.

To answer, if a sniper is standing still and is unaware of the assassin. The assassin has the chance to cloak lvl 3 and crit shurikens at the sniper.

If the sniper does not move and the entire clip hits, the sniper will die.

But keep in mind the slow travel time of the shurikens. The sniper will have ample opportunity to react and move out of the way. The closer you are when doing this the better. (less reaction time)

Just try not to get into a mid range battle vs smg and Flak.

Hope that helps.

I think the main difference is what way we view the assassin. You refer to it as a close range class, which as a general definition, it is. However, I do not view it as a class that kills any other class straight up in close range combat. Instead, it relies on speed and the ability to misdirect w/ invisibility and the smoke bomb (which needs to be better most likely). Because of this, I feel like if any class sees the Assassin coming at them, they should win.

We've played SR before and we've discussed SR briefly. You don't like how I play.

"Cowardly tactics" work great in Shadowrun, MNC and in life (look at every biological environment). People who've never played the RPG just don't understand smartlink or EV.

Yeah, he's kinda right. I absolutely hated smartlink and EV. I refused to even use them. But you can't deny their effectiveness.

Good game.

I will confuse fun with balance.What are you going to do about it? HUH? HUH? HUH?
Nah just kidding you have some good points

none of the characters need nerfs/buffs.

to deal with assualts, use air strike when they charge you, you survive, they die.

to deal with snipers, use another sniper or assassin, but be careful of the annoying ones who put ice traps everywhere in one way segments. if that happens, use air strike when hes scoped in.

to deal with assassin, use the tank cause they're the only class to survive a back katana grapple with gold health sponser (barely with silver but one hit from anything will kill you)

to deal with tanks, use gunner or assualt at a decent range, just watch out for the Tanks that use gold or silver rate of fire, cause they will most likely out damage you with the railgun

to deal with gunners, use assualts and just jump/fly around, stick them with bombs, bascially anything assualts do will kill a gunners

and lastly, to deal with supports, just dodge their air strikes and dont go in too close, (except assassins and make sure you always go for the back grapple as they can one shot you with the shotgun unless you have gold health)

Sniper: Best short range.
Gunner: Best All range. (minigun most effective at close range)
Tank: Best Close range
Support: Best supplemental/AI use (FB, turrets, bots etc.)
Assault: Most well rounded.
Assassin: Best way to annoy people more than Mosquitoes can.

Fixed.

Gunner: Best at medium-close range. Unless you use Accuracy.

I could go on but really it's all about this class is good vs this class unless. The trick is to recognize what the other guy is playing (if you are equal or he's better) and adapt. I keep two different gunner loadouts so I have some options.

The Sniper is also the best at long range, while also having a good medium range, giving him the complete package as well.

Add all this up and its stating the same thing as the original post.

Classes fall into different tiers. (Although with enough skill, you could probably do well with a butter knife wielding class, that does NOT change the fact that your class with the butter knife is ill-equipped)

Top Tier Classes (vs other Classes):
Sniper
Support
Gunner
(in no particular order)

Middle Tier:
Assault

Bottom Tier:
Tank
Assassin
(in a very particular order. lol)

Again, I enjoy all classes because each one is unique and fun. But they aren't balanced. Some classes can fill multiple roles consistently and effectively while others are limited while also being counter-able.

Listing the tank as bottom tier despite him having the best non grapple CQC (Close Quarters Combat) in the game, in addition for tying for the most crowd control abilities in the game, while having one of the game's only hitscan weapons for medium/long range combat just absolutely baffles me. He is the definition of filling multiple roles consistently and effectively. His CQC is better than both the assassin and the sniper because he does not rely on grapples, and his fire deals additional damage over time meaning you can switch targets sooner when your are not AoE damaging everything. He is capable of moving the entire time, and can engage multiple enemies easier then pretty much every other class. He is slow, but the low cooldown on Charge 3 and the jet pack give him better mobility than the gunner easily. Jumping before your charge allows you to NOT be grappled out of your charge. Oh, and he can survive most of the grapples in the game, and usually 1 shot them with charge 3 afterwords. He is god tier at close range, everyone else is below him.

As for long range, he is out classed by the Sniper. The tank Outclasses the assassin and support. I'd say hes more or less equal to the gunner (with mortar) and assault (with Grenades) due to hitscan railgun vs travel time launchers. At long range, I'd probably rank them: Sniper, Gunner/Assault/Tank, Assassin/Support.

Mid Range, he is outclassed by the gunner and assault, about the same as the sniper, and superior to support and assassin. Even against the better mid range classes, a good tank will either retreat or blind his foe and turn it into a close range fight (and if the tank blinds his foe, charge 3 is almost a guaranteed kill.)

The support does NOTHING against a tank unless he sticks him with an airstrike in the open, or lures him into a firebase that for some reason is not blinded and burnt. Heal hurt gun = charged support. Absolutely perfect shotgun timing and a lot of luck are about the only way for a support to ever beat a halfway competent tank 1v1.

As for the assassin, her entire gameplay centers around juice IMO as far as class vs class is concerned. She can grapple targets of oportunity, but most of my assassin games end with far more sword/lunge kills than grapples (I also kill way more turrets than I grapple.). She is weak at class vs class except for the fact that she gains juice at an absolutely absurd rate and is extremely powerful during her juiced state (way moreso than say...a support) and can afford to only engage pros when she is juiced.

As far as being counter grappled, good assassins will smoke bomb a lone target straight out of cloak, slash, and then grapple.

Another issue I take with this list is that the sniper and support's ability to do well at close range depends entirely on the enemy walking into their traps/firebases. They rely on the enemy coming closer into the danger zone. They are significantly weaker than the tank or gunner or even the assassin in offensive CQC for this reason.

Now based on whats been said,

Top Tier:
Gunner Deadly at all ranges + best mid range
Sniper Deadly at all ranges + Best long range + best grapple
Support Deadly at all ranges (i.e. Firebase can be anywhere) +most necessary class for good teams + Makes team/bots/turrets better.

Middle Tier:
Assault most well rounded. (Not the best at anything, but good in any situation)

Bottom Tier:
Tank Deadly up close and long distance + Best Close range.
Assassin Situationally Deadly Up close (not against Tanks, Freeze trap Snipers, and Firebase Supports)