Does Not Compute

Why are you assuming that I can't?
I already know other classes have advantages. In regards to the Tank, he has more health(even before upgrades to the Passive skill), a better long range weapon and is a better bot killer.

I just find it screwy that apparently enough people griped that the Assault charge crutched upon for combat and got a nerf and yet noone seems to mind that more Tank players are using their charge for the same reason
Hell, look at this thread, I'm getting flak for stating such

Just to clarify, I'm NOT asking for a nerf to the Tank Charge

By the way, not taking the side that Tank is uber powerful, but flying alone is nothing against a Tank charge, since you can just jump before you charge and still pick them out of their highest jump.


But this ends up only enhancing the Assaults advantage over the Tank, which is range.
There really is no reason to die against a Tank as an Assault.


Yes the Tank has a better charge. Why is that even an issue?
Assault can fly around at a distance, spam grenades, drop bombs at middle ranges to prevent the Tank from getting close, and spam his machine gun.
He can spam!!!


What can a Tank do against that?
Try to charge to close the gap? Lol thanks 4 running into my bomb, the Assault said.
Now the Tank is half dead and not necessarily close to the Assault anyway. Even if he is close he cant knock the Assault out of the air while his charge recharges.
And from there the Assault still has the advantage and will win most confrontations (not all if the Tank is actually skilled at jetgunning the air).

If the Tank failed to close the gap, which will be frequent after the bomb, he has only his railgun, which is a definite lose in this situation. As an Assault you wouldnt need to worry too much about a mid-air long-range product grenade, though it does sometimes happen.


Not only that, but the Assault can just leave at any time. He is faster and more agile than the Tank. The Tank will be screwed after any encounter with an Assault even if he wins or it is a draw, since getting out of the area with his charge gone is simply not going to happen. Next wave of bots comes and Tank cant heal at all, leaving him a sitting duck for the next guy.



Now, the Assault can single-handedly take out a class that was designed to bea Tank, and you are trying to get the Assaults charge to be equal to or better than the Tanks charge, on top of everything else?

Does not compute.



Now if you turn the corner and there is a Tank right there, you have full rights to immediate death.
Tank is a destroyer at close range. Assault can take him down easily at long ranges, or even medium ranges.
It doesnt make sense that the Assault should also be able to win close-range.


Your complaint is exactly the same thing as this:

Come on! Sniping is all a Sniper can do! Just because another class has a similar attack, why should it be equal?


L. Spiro

God damn you are a f*cking idiot
NOWHERE did I say ANYTHING about bringing the 2 Charges closer together in power/ability/regen/etc

THIS is what I've been saying for those that are reading impaired.

Skill X gets used a certain way, people gripe
Skill X gets nerfed
Skill Z is being used in a similar way, nobody cares
Skill Z left alone
Thread started noting said oddness, NOT ONE mention of nerfing/buffing Skill X or Z

And once more...
I DON'T GIVE A SH*T IF THEY LEAVE THE TANK CHARGE AS IT IS
Uber decides to rebuff the Assault charge? Fine with me
Uber decides to nerf the Tank charge? Fine with me
Uber decides to do absolutely nothing to either charge? STILL fine with me.


Is that clear enough for you?

Its funny how you didnt actually understand anything I wrote and then accused me, after I was perfectly clear on what you were saying, of not understanding.

Idiot.


Did I imply you wanted to nerf the Tank charge? Nope!
Did I imply you wanted to buff the Assault charge? Nope!

You were whining about things being nerfed due to complaints others made about how they worked. So I wrote this long story about why some complaints are more fair than others based on how one given class should excel at one given ability.
Close-range combat is the Tanks thing. Why would complaints about his charge be justified vs. complaints about an obviously over-powered Assault charge?
If the Assault is able to beat the Tank at long, middle, and close range, of course the complaints are with merit. Of course it is going to get nerfed.

Likewise, people bitch about the Sniper all the time, and it doesnt get nerfed. Why? Because that is what it was made to do well, and it needs to do it well!

I thought I said this pretty clearly, but I guess I gave you too much credit.


L. Spiro

The tank has weaker natural attributes. He isn't broken, seeing as how he can't just chase you down with superior speed and shoot you from a good range to death. Thus, he should be allowed to have short linear bursts of speed more often, and more firepower up close (not like your assault is going to have a problem outrunning a tank and staying away from them :roll: ).

If you still want to be able to skill-spam and win at everything, well try to play a tank and tell me how much easier it is compared to assault.

I personally say give the assault back his skills, and then nerf his speed below most of the other classes, but that is because I rather play skill-spam assaults, than assaults that will chase you anywhere and everywhere trying to kill you because they know they CAN follow you forever just spraying until you take a bullet too many (being rushed down constantly by assaults is like running around knowing a doctor with a rubber glove on is trying to find you for a prostate exam). On top of that, he also can run away and you can't keep up at all, meaning he will always escape death by bravely running into his spawnroom and taunting until his health regens.

Rushdown kills are still powerful and annoying on assault, moneyball damage coupled with mobility is still powerful and annoying with assault, at least I don't have to put up with charge-bomb shenanigans anymore (but I will be glad to trade you skill buff for a nerf to one of those other 2)

Allow me to highlight your hypocrisy

And yes, I did read your posts, I do comprehend your posts but I choose to ignore the rest because of what is posted above.

Its funny that you keep posting the one sentence you dont seem to understand.
Allow me.

Does this imply that you want the Tank charge to be nerfed? Nope! Maybe the Assault charge could be buffed!

Does this imply that you want the Assault charge to be buffed? Nope! Maybe the Tank charge could be nerfed!

There is actually one more thing you dont understand about that line, proved by how you reacted. I will let you figure it out.

I never specified whether you care to have either buffed or nerfed. In fact I chose these words specifically because you clearly said you didnt care if either got nerfed or buffed in a later post (which I read and fully understood, obviously).


I guess I figured that by explaining why things are fine as they are, you would put two and two together and realize that is why people wouldnt complain when they did in the past over a similar situation.

My post was an umbrella post. It covers every issue you could possibly have.
#1: If you wonder why things get nerfed and others dont, it covers that (and since I apparently need to always be extra clear when talking to you, I am not saying you were wondering that).
#2: If you wonder why people whine about this and not that, my post covers that! Why would people whine about the Tanks one chance at a mid-range fight?

My post explains how things are balanced as they are, and leaves it up to you to figure out how that wold prevent people from whining now when they whined before. Again, my mistake for giving you too much credit.


L. Spiro

Can we please keep the insults to a minimum?

i just want to know why the tanks charging corpse can kill me...

The unfortunate answer to this will always be latency. Like how I can kill a support, watch his body crumble, and a second later a shotgun blast from the dead support can kill me.

quite clearly you dont care so why bring it up in the first place?

I am a friend to everyone.


L. Spiro

See what happens when you whine on the internet then get enraged everyone doesn't automatically agree with you.

Now, because of Killien, everyone within a 3 mile radius of him is now gay.

How does the tank have weaker natural attributes? His health is nearly twice that of the assault his speed is 100less true but his recharge speed on skills/dps/effective ranges are significantly better. Also his jetgun > AR in most situations (there is a tiny area of range where the AR does better damage without simply having its 9damage per shot fall off kick in but it is extremely small. And jetgun has perfect accuracy and more ammo, and afterburn.) His ranged attacks are actually BETTER than the assaults most of the time. Railgun deals 1 less damage per shot than the grenade launcher, but has no range limit and is hitscan. Grenade launcher is only better when attempting to flush someone out of hiding behind a wall, other than that the railgun is just as good if not better (better bot damage, better range, better accuracy, same rate of fire, faster reload.)

Actually the tank can typically cover ground distance faster than the assault as the tank's charge has a significantly shorter cooldown. Really the advantage for the assault in covering distance is only if he takes short cuts using jump jets or bomb jumping. Otherwise the Tank is actually faster. Especially since Jump Jets reduces your movespeed to 500 (same as base tank run speed) The assault is a more mobile class for sure, but tank is ironically a SPEEDIER class.

Actually I've been doing just that since the patch was originally released. I can tell you. In about 80% of situations I've come across I've found the tank significantly easier to excel with. If the enemy has a good sniper or if one of their assassins is consistently cloaking and using ejectors are the only time I have more trouble as Tank than as Assault. Otherwise I tend to get more kills, die less, have longer streaks, more bot kills, more turret kills, and about twice as many juices per game. I also usually end up with more money since I'm better at protecting turrets thanks to product grenade and knockdown.

Sounds fine to me. Let me just check some stats... ah here we go.

Tank: Move speed 500
Support: Move speed 600
Gunner: Move speed 550
Sniper: Move speed 650
Assassin: Move speed 650 (900 with dash but we will ignore that.)
Assault: Move speed 600

Average Move speed: 591.66 So lets just round that up (since it is over half it goes up instead of down.) to 592. All right then. So give assault back his skills and reduce his move speed by 8. Sounds about right. That puts him right in the middle and "below" 3 of the 5 other classes.

You know who else can run away extremely easy? Assassin and Tank. Actually Assassin is even easier to run away thanks to 2second lunge cooldown. And tank only needs to get far enough away to deploy for 2 seconds to regen his health and he is back in the fight.

His moneyball damage is actually not that much better than any other class and lower than gunners now. Even with bomb 3. I could do the math to check but I believe it may even be lower than the tank using jetgun (if deployed with deploy 3 so he never has to reload).

The jetgun is better at close-range combat but you don't care very much about that as assault so yeah...

Also the railgun isn't always better than the GL when it comes to bots, because the GL does AoE damage while the railgun only hits targets that come into contact with the beam.

Assault destroys every other class in moneyball damage. And that's not even taking into account that you can destroy it with juice from a safe distance.
Also: The assault has it way easier to actually get to the moneyball on some maps without being noticed (Grenade III and Steel Peel for example).

The only thing the tank has over the assault, when it comes to the moneyball, is the fact that he can keep it down from his spawn.

He is just notifying the Forums of the fact that two similar situations get treated completely differently. Nothing more.

Umm... during OT when everyone has all endorsements the assault can do 75.6dps with AR to moneyball. Or 83.6 with grenade launcher. Assuming he throws his bomb every chance he has and blows it up at the exact moment it lands on the ball that adds another 75DPS. Gunner using dual minis does 249.4dps to the moneyball. Now maybe my math is off... but last I checked 158.6 is LESS than 249.4 by a fairly large amount. A deployed Tank during OT can do 141.4DPS using jetgun (WITHOUT using the product grenade at all.) A support using the shotgun does 119.25dps. Quite a bit lower than an assault who throws his bomb at every opportunity but significantly higher than an assault just using grenade launcher or AR.

So, his ability to "destroy every other class in moneyball damage" is "barely beats tank, loses to gunner, requires significantly more work but at a safer range to beat support."

The "safe distance" thing is true on steel peel for sure, but to be fair, assassins can do it too and there are a number of spots that every class can attack safely from on steel peel (though not as effectively or as easily as assassin/assault.)

What range are you supposed to use the AR if not medium close? Cause it has damage fall off after 1536 units(jet guns range is 1024 units and the assault's explosive has a radius of 512 and the supports shotgun max range is also 1024. just to give you an idea of how short that range is) And while the jetgun also has damage fall off, unlike the AR it has perfect accuracy so even though you are doing significantly less damage per shot you are also doing after burn damage, and hitting FAR more shots than the assault who has terrible base accuracy. Not to mention that the range that the AR can fight the jetgun can quickly be covered by a tank's charge.

The railgun is better against bots than the grenade launcher. Know why? 1. Railgun is instant. 2. Railgun pierces targets (which basically makes up for the grenade launcher having explosive area.) and 3. Railgun does significantly more damage to bots(745 per shot vs the grenade launchers 450 means 3 shots to kill a black jack vs 5 shots. They both have same ROF so that is a HUGE difference). Considering that to get the explosive effect of the grenade you either need to have the grenade last 1 second, or directly hit your target saying "the tanks railgun only effects things hit by the beam" really doesn't matter since you can also say "grenade launcher only effects things nearby the target hit" Also the product grenade kills an entire wave of bots in 1 lob if you have level 3.

Best example right here. Miniguns suck when it comes to the money ball from what I've seen.
I think everybody can agree that the GL is better than the Miniguns in that scenario.

Medium range is best. Also high ground.

Assault charge to increase the distance, bomb as an area-denial tool and Fly (keep the high ground).

2. Already said that. You don't have to hammer that in.
3. 3 shots to kill one Black Jack (and maybe take one or two slimbots out). See where I'm going here?

*Ding!*

By GL you mean Mortar?... Because he stated that GL only did 86DPS...


EDIT:

Thanks <3